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What is being worked on for 0.26?

 

 

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nospam312 at gmail

May 28, 2012, 11:24 AM

Post #1 of 67 (2709 views)
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What is being worked on for 0.26?

Does anyone know what is being worked on / goals for the 0.26 release
major feature wise?

I enjoyed reading the 0.25 equivalent of the this 0.26 page
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_0.26

Some features I would love to see but suspect I am hoping too much:

1. Multiple user support - even if this is gradually phased in as I
suspect it is too big of a job to be done all at once.

a. perhaps a user selection prompt screen when myth first starts (or
perhaps base it on the hostname)
b. allow recording rules to be assigned to multiple users
c. when a user deletes a recording it is removed from their list but
not physically deleted if another user has it in their list
d. everything else :)

2. Combining of Recorded Programmes and Video Programmes

a. i do not see why recorded programmes and video programmes are
listed separately they have the same functionality and should be
presented in the same list and be stored in the same database tables,
this would surely make things simpler and remove duplicate
code/functionality

I suspect if Tags are added this may be a big step to both the above features.

For example the recording rules could be tagged with "user1", "user2"
and the recorded and video programmes could be tagged with "tv" and
"video". The Watch Recordings screen could then have the ability to
show various tags.

I guess with tags it could be made very flexible you could have a list
of tags assigned as "Recording Groups" - "recordinggroup1",
"recordinggroup2" and the same interface that allowed setting of what
user, could also assign recording group, storage group, tv/video and
everything.

This would make setting up recording rules much simpler you would be
able to replace several options with just a screen with the
appropriate tags and you can just tick the appropriate checkboxes
associated with tags.

Thanks
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memmott at gmail

May 28, 2012, 11:41 AM

Post #2 of 67 (2633 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 2:24 PM, nospam312 <nospam312 [at] gmail> wrote:

> Does anyone know what is being worked on / goals for the 0.26 release
> major feature wise?
>
> I enjoyed reading the 0.25 equivalent of the this 0.26 page
> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_0.26
>
> Some features I would love to see but suspect I am hoping too much:
>
> 1. Multiple user support - even if this is gradually phased in as I
> suspect it is too big of a job to be done all at once.
>
> a. perhaps a user selection prompt screen when myth first starts (or
> perhaps base it on the hostname)
> b. allow recording rules to be assigned to multiple users
> c. when a user deletes a recording it is removed from their list but
> not physically deleted if another user has it in their list
> d. everything else :)
>
> 2. Combining of Recorded Programmes and Video Programmes
>
> a. i do not see why recorded programmes and video programmes are
> listed separately they have the same functionality and should be
> presented in the same list and be stored in the same database tables,
> this would surely make things simpler and remove duplicate
> code/functionality
>
> I suspect if Tags are added this may be a big step to both the above
> features.
>
> For example the recording rules could be tagged with "user1", "user2"
> and the recorded and video programmes could be tagged with "tv" and
> "video". The Watch Recordings screen could then have the ability to
> show various tags.
>
> I guess with tags it could be made very flexible you could have a list
> of tags assigned as "Recording Groups" - "recordinggroup1",
> "recordinggroup2" and the same interface that allowed setting of what
> user, could also assign recording group, storage group, tv/video and
> everything.
>
> This would make setting up recording rules much simpler you would be
> able to replace several options with just a screen with the
> appropriate tags and you can just tick the appropriate checkboxes
> associated with tags.
>
> Thanks
> _______________________________________________
>

I'm thinking this would be a good place to start:
http://code.mythtv.org/trac/roadmap


raymond at wagnerrp

May 28, 2012, 11:54 AM

Post #3 of 67 (2628 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 5/28/2012 14:24, nospam312 wrote:
> 2. Combining of Recorded Programmes and Video Programmes
>
> a. i do not see why recorded programmes and video programmes are
> listed separately they have the same functionality and should be
> presented in the same list and be stored in the same database tables,
> this would surely make things simpler and remove duplicate
> code/functionality

There is a partial merger of the database tables for the two types of
video, but they really exist with very much different purposes and
functionality that cannot be completely joined. The closest that is
likely to happen is for the Video Library to incorporate recorded
content in its metadata-generated alternate views, or for the scheduler
to incorporate Video Library content when performing duplicate matching.
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digidmyth at gmail

May 29, 2012, 6:15 AM

Post #4 of 67 (2600 views)
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

I for one do not want to see Videos and recorded content merged. At our
house the are two very distinct things. For one recorded programs are, to
be deleted when watched, videos are not. Recorded programs expire, videos
do not. The kids have access to videos based on rating. They do not have
access to recorded programs. To us they are and should remain two different
sections.

Dale


lindsay.mathieson at gmail

May 29, 2012, 6:19 AM

Post #5 of 67 (2606 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, 29 May 2012 06:15:30 AM digid myth wrote:
> I for one do not want to see Videos and recorded content merged. At our
> house the are two very distinct things. For one recorded programs are, to
> be deleted when watched, videos are not. Recorded programs expire, videos
> do not. The kids have access to videos based on rating. They do not have
> access to recorded programs. To us they are and should remain two different
> sections.

Agree 110%

--
Lindsay
Attachments: signature.asc (0.19 KB)


nasa01 at comcast

May 29, 2012, 6:23 AM

Post #6 of 67 (2593 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

While I can see Dale's opinion,

I for one, would love to see the two merged... It just makes
to much sense. I have TV shows that have episodes that are
recorded and saved (for example having season 1 DVD and Season
2 recorded). Having to switch between a recorded view vs a
video view to see the same TV show isn't the best solution -- just
my two cents.

Nasa

----- Original Message -----
> I for one do not want to see Videos and recorded content merged. At
> our house the are two very distinct things. For one recorded programs
> are, to be deleted when watched, videos are not. Recorded programs
> expire, videos do not. The kids have access to videos based on rating.
> They do not have access to recorded programs. To us they are and
> should remain two different sections.  
>
>
> Dale
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
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tom at redpepperracing

May 29, 2012, 6:26 AM

Post #7 of 67 (2597 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Lindsay Mathieson
<lindsay.mathieson [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2012 06:15:30 AM digid myth wrote:
>> I for one do not want to see Videos and recorded content merged. At our
>> house the are two very distinct things. For one recorded programs are, to
>> be deleted when watched, videos are not. Recorded programs expire, videos
>> do not. The kids have access to videos based on rating. They do not have
>> access to recorded programs. To us they are and should remain two different
>> sections.
>
> Agree 110%

And I disagree 110%. Media is media, regardless of the source, for us
and our use case, they are and should remain the same.

So, as we can see, everyone has a different opinion. It's up to the
generous developers to try and make it work for them, and if it works
for us as well, so much the better.

Tom
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lindsay.mathieson at gmail

May 29, 2012, 6:31 AM

Post #8 of 67 (2596 views)
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:26:19 AM Tom Lichti wrote:
> And I disagree 110%. Media is media, regardless of the source,

So you want your music mixed in with your videos? its all media after all
--
Lindsay
Attachments: signature.asc (0.19 KB)


tom at redpepperracing

May 29, 2012, 6:34 AM

Post #9 of 67 (2592 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Lindsay Mathieson
<lindsay.mathieson [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:26:19 AM Tom Lichti wrote:
>> And I disagree 110%. Media is media, regardless of the source,
>
> So you want your music mixed in with your videos? its all media after all

Sure, why not? :)

I will rephrase my statement for clarity: "Video is video, regardless
of the source"

Tom
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raymond at wagnerrp

May 29, 2012, 6:42 AM

Post #10 of 67 (2594 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 5/29/2012 09:34, Tom Lichti wrote:
> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Lindsay Mathieson
> <lindsay.mathieson [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:26:19 AM Tom Lichti wrote:
>>> And I disagree 110%. Media is media, regardless of the source,
>>
>> So you want your music mixed in with your videos? its all media after all
>
> Sure, why not? :)
>
> I will rephrase my statement for clarity: "Video is video, regardless
> of the source"

You want video recordings from your camera mixed in recordings from your
tuners?
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lindsay.mathieson at gmail

May 29, 2012, 6:44 AM

Post #11 of 67 (2593 views)
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:34:31 AM Tom Lichti wrote:
> I will rephrase my statement for clarity: "Video is video, regardless
> of the source"

Nope, as the earlier poster said - my TV recordings are ephemeral, filled with
adverts which can't be auto detected (Australia) and massive amounts of
pre/post padding (again Australia). I watch them once and delete, if I delete
at all. There are thousands of them which will get aut deleted if I don't get
round to watching them.

OTOH, my videos are hand picked high quality, either ripped from my DVD's or
brought and kept because I love them and watched over and over - not once offs
(or zero offs) at all. Completely different from the mostly pop (but fun)
dreck on TV. In no way do I want them merged together.
--
Lindsay
Attachments: signature.asc (0.19 KB)


tom at redpepperracing

May 29, 2012, 6:52 AM

Post #12 of 67 (2596 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Lindsay Mathieson
<lindsay.mathieson [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:34:31 AM Tom Lichti wrote:
>> I will rephrase my statement for clarity: "Video is video, regardless
>> of the source"
>
> Nope, as the earlier poster said - my TV recordings are ephemeral, filled with
> adverts which can't be  auto detected (Australia) and massive amounts of
> pre/post padding (again Australia). I watch them once and delete, if I delete
> at all. There are thousands of them which will get aut deleted if I don't get
> round to watching them.
>
> OTOH, my videos are hand picked high quality, either ripped from my DVD's or
> brought and kept because I love them and watched over and over - not once offs
> (or zero offs) at all. Completely different from the mostly pop (but fun)
> dreck on TV. In no way do I want them merged together.

And again I will say, *I* do want them merged. I don't care about your
use case, and you don't care about mine, I'm not sure what we are
arguing about. Unless I rewrite the recordings portion, I won't get
what I want, and you already have what you want.

Having said that, I do have some hacks that do basically what I want,
but if the devs made it work the way I want, in a supported fashion,
then yay! Even better if it can work the way we both want it to, but
I'm not holding my breath.

Whatever happens, my vote is for merged video, but I'll take what I can get.

Tom
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lindsay.mathieson at gmail

May 29, 2012, 6:54 AM

Post #13 of 67 (2599 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:52:15 AM Tom Lichti wrote:
> Whatever happens, my vote is for merged video, but I'll take what I can get.

Fair enough - same here
--
Lindsay
Attachments: signature.asc (0.19 KB)


linux at thehobsons

May 29, 2012, 6:54 AM

Post #14 of 67 (2597 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

Lindsay Mathieson wrote:

>So you want your music mixed in with your videos? its all media after all

Well actually there is an argument for that. In my collection there
are a number of examples where there is an [ artist | group |
whatever ] where I have both video (DVD) and music (CD). Also, in
amongst my recorded "TV" is radio (ie audio "plus a bit" from DVB).

So if using the TV, if I fancied a bit of (say) organ music, then I
have candidates for that in video (from DVD), audio (from CD), and
"audio plus a bit" (from Radio on DVD (Freeview)).

Now, if using a non-video device then you'd need to filter out the
video/TV - or you might not want to, as you may want to play a music
DVD or TV recording and only have the audio.
The more you look at it, the more options !

--
Simon Hobson

Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed
author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as
Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books.
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jedi at mishnet

May 29, 2012, 7:02 AM

Post #15 of 67 (2598 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 09:26:19AM -0400, Tom Lichti wrote:
> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Lindsay Mathieson
> <lindsay.mathieson [at] gmail> wrote:
> > On Tue, 29 May 2012 06:15:30 AM digid myth wrote:
> >> I for one do not want to see Videos and recorded content merged. At our
> >> house the are two very distinct things. For one recorded programs are, to
> >> be deleted when watched, videos are not. Recorded programs expire, videos
> >> do not. The kids have access to videos based on rating. They do not have
> >> access to recorded programs. To us they are and should remain two different
> >> sections.
> >
> > Agree 110%
>
> And I disagree 110%. Media is media, regardless of the source, for us
> and our use case, they are and should remain the same.
>
> So, as we can see, everyone has a different opinion. It's up to the
> generous developers to try and make it work for them, and if it works
> for us as well, so much the better.

It seems that where there are conflicts between the two types of
media, some of the differences can be resolved by bringing both sets
of features on par with each other.

Parental filtering is a good example of a feature that would be
very handy if implemented in the recordings. Some level of user
awareness could be useful in that regard too. You don't necessarily
need to restrict access. Presenting things differently could be good
enough.

[deletia]
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jedi at mishnet

May 29, 2012, 7:07 AM

Post #16 of 67 (2596 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 11:31:46PM +1000, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:26:19 AM Tom Lichti wrote:
> > And I disagree 110%. Media is media, regardless of the source,
>
> So you want your music mixed in with your videos? its all media after all

For video compilations and concert videos, this would actually make
a certain amount of sense. Soundtracks could also be stored with the
movie they are from.

The same performer appearing across different media types certainly isn't
unheard of.
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lindsay.mathieson at gmail

May 29, 2012, 7:09 AM

Post #17 of 67 (2598 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:07:02 AM jedi wrote:
> > So you want your music mixed in with your videos? its all media after all
>
> For video compilations and concert videos, this would actually make
> a certain amount of sense. Soundtracks could also be stored with the
> movie they are from.
>
> The same performer appearing across different media types certainly isn't
> unheard of.

Its sounds like over complicating/thinking a simple interface that works.
--
Lindsay
Attachments: signature.asc (0.19 KB)


raymond at wagnerrp

May 29, 2012, 7:11 AM

Post #18 of 67 (2592 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 5/29/2012 10:07, jedi wrote:
> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 11:31:46PM +1000, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:26:19 AM Tom Lichti wrote:
>>> And I disagree 110%. Media is media, regardless of the source,
>>
>> So you want your music mixed in with your videos? its all media after all
>
> For video compilations and concert videos, this would actually make
> a certain amount of sense. Soundtracks could also be stored with the
> movie they are from.
>
> The same performer appearing across different media types certainly isn't
> unheard of.

Being able to easily cross-link to related content of different formats,
and having them actually show up in the same list, are two very
different concepts.
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lindsay.mathieson at gmail

May 29, 2012, 7:15 AM

Post #19 of 67 (2599 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:07:02 AM jedi wrote:
> For video compilations and concert videos, this would actually make
> a certain amount of sense. Soundtracks could also be stored with the
> movie they are from.
>
> The same performer appearing across different media types certainly isn't
> unheard of.

Also, these are edge case - not general content. The vast majority of tv
recordings don't have anywhere near the amount of meta info for what you
describe to be possible.

--
Lindsay
Attachments: signature.asc (0.19 KB)


nasa01 at comcast

May 29, 2012, 7:52 AM

Post #20 of 67 (2596 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
> On 5/29/2012 09:34, Tom Lichti wrote:
> > On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Lindsay Mathieson
> > <lindsay.mathieson [at] gmail> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:26:19 AM Tom Lichti wrote:
> >>> And I disagree 110%. Media is media, regardless of the source,
> >>
> >> So you want your music mixed in with your videos? its all media
> >> after all
> >
> > Sure, why not? :)
> >
> > I will rephrase my statement for clarity: "Video is video,
> > regardless
> > of the source"
>
> You want video recordings from your camera mixed in recordings from
> your
> tuners?

Yes -- title it appropriately...
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
_______________________________________________
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memmott at gmail

May 29, 2012, 8:21 AM

Post #21 of 67 (2575 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Nasa <nasa01 [at] comcast> wrote:

>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > On 5/29/2012 09:34, Tom Lichti wrote:
> > > On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Lindsay Mathieson
> > > <lindsay.mathieson [at] gmail> wrote:
> > >> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:26:19 AM Tom Lichti wrote:
> > >>> And I disagree 110%. Media is media, regardless of the source,
> > >>
> > >> So you want your music mixed in with your videos? its all media
> > >> after all
> > >
> > > Sure, why not? :)
> > >
> > > I will rephrase my statement for clarity: "Video is video,
> > > regardless
> > > of the source"
> >
> > You want video recordings from your camera mixed in recordings from
> > your
> > tuners?
>
> Yes -- title it appropriately...
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> > http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> _______________________________________________
>
>
Couldn't we all take a step back and come up with a better way to tag or
organize the media, and have some sort of dynamic grouping based on that? I
don't think I want my videos mixed with my recordings, but on the same
token, I look at full seasons of, say, Game of Thrones as being more at
home in the Videos section.

Some ideas off the top of my head would be to have views like "permanent"
(movies, tv shows set to never delete), "temporary" (Shows that are set to
auto-delete), and "online" (links to videos on YouTube etc). Want to keep
something forever? Options -> Mark as Permanent.

Just a thought. I see the rest of the world going with tags and
search-driven dynamic descriptions, so why shouldn't MythTV?


raymond at wagnerrp

May 29, 2012, 8:21 AM

Post #22 of 67 (2572 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 5/29/2012 10:15, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:07:02 AM jedi wrote:
>> For video compilations and concert videos, this would actually make
>> a certain amount of sense. Soundtracks could also be stored with the
>> movie they are from.
>>
>> The same performer appearing across different media types certainly isn't
>> unheard of.
>
> Also, these are edge case - not general content. The vast majority of tv
> recordings don't have anywhere near the amount of meta info for what you
> describe to be possible.

Seems like the first step would be to petition Travis Bell to get
soundtrack listings and other such related content into the TMDB database.
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digidmyth at gmail

May 29, 2012, 11:46 AM

Post #23 of 67 (2568 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

It seems we all use myth a little differently, which just goes to show how
versatile the system is.

So maybe the best solution is to have an option to pull data from both
recordings and videos together for those that would like to see them
together. In my case I do not think that would work well as we have our
videos sorted in folders based on genre in most cases, so if you want to
watch a western it's in the western folder. If you want to watch season 1
of dirty jobs it's in tv shows/dirty jobs/ season 1. It also makes it
easyer for the kids to find something on their cinema tube boxes in their
rooms. I have a script that builds links to what they can watch from the db
based on ratings and share it via samba. In my case the live tv and
recordings are not something the younger kids do not have access to.

The point is we have each adapted myth to best fit our needs. So the use
cases are going to be all over the place. The developers have given us
great flexibility and a great system. I don't think any of us want to loose
something we already have, which makes change even harder, and a lot more
work for the developers. Look back at all the complaints about the changes
in .25 myth music. Lots of people are not happy with that while others
like the new system. For the record we use iTunes for music at our house as
we are apple and iPhone users also.

Bottom line is that we need to all be thankfully for what the developers
have done, and we need to also let thm know how we use the system so they
can make good choices in the direction the oft ware is going.

I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest, I was just voicing my opinion of
how and why we like them separate at our house.

Dale


dekarl at spaetfruehstuecken

May 29, 2012, 11:48 AM

Post #24 of 67 (2570 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 29.05.2012 16:15, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:07:02 AM jedi wrote:
>> For video compilations and concert videos, this would actually make
>> a certain amount of sense. Soundtracks could also be stored with the
>> movie they are from.
>>
>> The same performer appearing across different media types certainly isn't
>> unheard of.
>
> Also, these are edge case - not general content. The vast majority of tv
> recordings don't have anywhere near the amount of meta info for what you
> describe to be possible.

which is why we want a community project with an sophisticated schema
and editing process, like musicbrainz but with tv data. Lets call it
tvbrainz :-)

Regards,
Karl
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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

May 29, 2012, 12:02 PM

Post #25 of 67 (2564 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Karl Dietz
<dekarl [at] spaetfruehstuecken> wrote:
> On 29.05.2012 16:15, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:07:02 AM jedi wrote:
>>>
>>>  For video compilations and concert videos, this would actually make
>>> a certain amount of sense. Soundtracks could also be stored with the
>>> movie they are from.
>>>
>>>    The same performer appearing across different media types certainly
>>> isn't
>>> unheard of.
>>
>>
>> Also, these are edge case - not general content. The vast majority of tv
>> recordings don't have anywhere near the amount of meta info for what you
>> describe to be possible.
>
>
> which is why we want a community project with an sophisticated schema
> and editing process, like musicbrainz but with tv data. Lets call it
> tvbrainz :-)
>
> Regards,
> Karl

or, http://thetvdb.com/
?


--
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Before you ask, read the FAQ!
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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

May 29, 2012, 12:04 PM

Post #26 of 67 (1395 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 2:46 PM, digid myth <digidmyth [at] gmail> wrote:
> It seems we all use myth a little differently, which just goes to show how
> versatile the system is.
>
> So maybe the best solution is to have an option to pull data from both
> recordings and videos together for those that would like to see them
> together.  In my case I do not think that would work well as we have our
> videos sorted in folders based on genre in most cases, so if you want to
> watch a western it's in the western folder. If you want to watch season 1 of
> dirty jobs it's in tv shows/dirty jobs/ season 1. It also makes it easyer
> for the kids to find something on their cinema tube boxes in their rooms. I
> have a script that builds links to what they can watch from the db based on
> ratings and share it via samba. In my case the live tv and recordings are
> not something the younger kids do not have access to.
>
> The point is we have each adapted myth to best fit our needs. So the use
> cases are going to be all over the place.  The developers have given us
> great flexibility and a great system. I don't think any of us want to loose
> something we already have, which makes change even harder, and a lot more
> work for the developers.  Look back at all the complaints about the changes
> in  .25 myth music. Lots of people are not happy with that while others like
> the new system. For the record we use iTunes for music at our house as we
> are apple and iPhone users also.
>
> Bottom line is that we need to all be thankfully for what the developers
> have done, and we need to also let thm know how we use the system so they
> can make good choices in the direction the oft ware is going.
>
> I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest, I was just voicing my opinion of
> how and why we like them separate at our house.
>
> Dale

from your previous email, it just sounds like a paradigm shift on your part.

there is no reason given in your previous email that the two could not
successfully be combined and not still be 100% usable by what you are
trying to do.


--
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Before you ask, read the FAQ!
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then search the Wiki, and this list,
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dekarl at spaetfruehstuecken

May 29, 2012, 1:21 PM

Post #27 of 67 (1385 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 29.05.2012 21:02, Steven Adeff wrote:
> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Karl Dietz
> <dekarl [at] spaetfruehstuecken> wrote:
>> On 29.05.2012 16:15, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:07:02 AM jedi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For video compilations and concert videos, this would actually make
>>>> a certain amount of sense. Soundtracks could also be stored with the
>>>> movie they are from.
>>>>
>>>> The same performer appearing across different media types certainly
>>>> isn't
>>>> unheard of.
>>>
>>>
>>> Also, these are edge case - not general content. The vast majority of tv
>>> recordings don't have anywhere near the amount of meta info for what you
>>> describe to be possible.
>>
>>
>> which is why we want a community project with an sophisticated schema
>> and editing process, like musicbrainz but with tv data. Lets call it
>> tvbrainz :-)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Karl
>
> or, http://thetvdb.com/
> ?

sadly not.

from the top of my head:
* no names for seasons (some series have different title/subtitle
per season, e.g. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_Princess )
relevant for Anime, too. where the difference between different
seasons of one series and spin-offs appears to be fluid, see
http://forums.thetvdb.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9890
* no aliases for episodes (e.g. Stargate Atlantis has different episode
titles depending on the broadcasting station, see

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Stargate-Atlantis-Episoden#Staffel_2
)
* no direct editing of good data. (you post a request to the forum on
tvdb vs. you edit directly and other editors vote on your edit)
* API doesn't allow searching for series alias name or episode name

IMHO its the best database that is available to us at the moment, but
I like the concepts behind musicbrainz a lot more.

Regards,
Karl
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krt at krt

May 29, 2012, 1:32 PM

Post #28 of 67 (1391 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 29/05/12 23:44, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:
> Nope, as the earlier poster said - my TV recordings are ephemeral, filled with
> adverts which can't be auto detected (Australia) and massive amounts of
> pre/post padding (again Australia). I watch them once and delete, if I delete
> at all. There are thousands of them which will get aut deleted if I don't get
> round to watching them.

I don't have any trouble auto-detecting ads on 7-two, sbs-* and I don't
bother with ABC.
I would give it 95% plus against SBS. Something in Mythbusters gives it the
willies though.

The only show I ever record off 7-two (Seachange) it worked 100%

-kt


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linux at thehobsons

May 29, 2012, 2:02 PM

Post #29 of 67 (1393 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

digid myth wrote:
>It seems we all use myth a little differently

Not only that, but we also have different ideas of how it should work
(if that's not how we already use it).

>So maybe the best solution is to have an option to pull data from
>both recordings and videos together for those that would like to see
>them together. In my case I do not think that would work well as we
>have our videos sorted in folders based on genre in most cases, so
>if you want to watch a western it's in the western folder. If you
>want to watch season 1 of dirty jobs it's in tv shows/dirty jobs/
>season 1.

I think the idea to add tags would deal with a lot of what people are
asking for.
If you like music, video, and Tv to be separate things - then use
separate lists which only show items tagged as music, video, or TV.
If you like them together, then use a combined list. Tags would also
allow you to do a lot what you currently do with folders - plus allow
you to have multiple entries (so a westerns fan could have one list
with John Wayne films, and another for a specific subgenre or date
range (for example) which would include some of the same films.

>Bottom line is that we need to all be thankfully for what the
>developers have done, and we need to also let thm know how we use
>the system so they can make good choices in the direction the oft
>ware is going.

Indeed. There's a lot I don't use, even more I don't know how to use
fully. But I certainly don't want to go back to anything I've used
before.

--
Simon Hobson

Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed
author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as
Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books.
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jyavenard at gmail

May 29, 2012, 4:59 PM

Post #30 of 67 (1377 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

Hi

On Tuesday, 29 May 2012, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:

> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:34:31 AM Tom Lichti wrote:
> > I will rephrase my statement for clarity: "Video is video, regardless
> > of the source"
>
> Nope, as the earlier poster said - my TV recordings are ephemeral, filled
> with
> adverts which can't be auto detected (Australia) and massive amounts of
> pre/post padding (again Australia). I watch them once and delete, if I
> delete
> at all. There are thousands of them which will get aut deleted if I don't
> get
> round to watching them.
>
> OTOH, my videos are hand picked high quality, either ripped from my DVD's
> or
> brought and kept because I love them and watched over and over - not once
> offs
> (or zero offs) at all. Completely different from the mostly pop (but fun)
> dreck on TV. In no way do I want them merged together.
> --
>
>
This is exactly how I use mythtv.

The torc iPad app allows you to have a combined view. Which I first
thought: great, this is how it should be done... After using it for a
little while I found that I treat the content differently. My recordings
are ephemeral, I know 100% that I will not keep them. If there's a
recording I like, I will source a video from a DVD. And for TV series, they
are shows here so late that I would have sourced them from the US well in
advance.
It is also much easier for me to find content in split recordings/videos.

Having said that, I'd love for access to recordings to be redone. It's a
pain to find content that is only a few days old. It's such a pain, that if
it isn't watched within a week, it will probably never get watch


michael at thewatsonfamily

May 29, 2012, 5:13 PM

Post #31 of 67 (1376 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 30/05/2012 9:59 AM, Jean-Yves Avenard wrote:
> Hi
>
> On Tuesday, 29 May 2012, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:
>
> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:34:31 AM Tom Lichti wrote:
> > I will rephrase my statement for clarity: "Video is video,
> regardless
> > of the source"
>
> Nope, as the earlier poster said - my TV recordings are ephemeral,
> filled with
> adverts which can't be auto detected (Australia) and massive
> amounts of
> pre/post padding (again Australia). I watch them once and delete,
> if I delete
> at all. There are thousands of them which will get aut deleted if
> I don't get
> round to watching them.
>
> OTOH, my videos are hand picked high quality, either ripped from
> my DVD's or
> brought and kept because I love them and watched over and over -
> not once offs
> (or zero offs) at all. Completely different from the mostly pop
> (but fun)
> dreck on TV. In no way do I want them merged together.
> --
>
>
> This is exactly how I use mythtv.
>
> The torc iPad app allows you to have a combined view. Which I first
> thought: great, this is how it should be done... After using it for a
> little while I found that I treat the content differently. My
> recordings are ephemeral, I know 100% that I will not keep them. If
> there's a recording I like, I will source a video from a DVD. And for
> TV series, they are shows here so late that I would have sourced them
> from the US well in advance.
> It is also much easier for me to find content in split recordings/videos.
>
> Having said that, I'd love for access to recordings to be redone. It's
> a pain to find content that is only a few days old. It's such a pain,
> that if it isn't watched within a week, it will probably never get watch
>
I think it would be good if the "Watch Recordings" screen worked more
like the "Program Finder", with 1800+ recordings, it can be very time
consuming to scroll down/up to find the series you are looking for,
especially on a remote. I dont like the concept of merging videos with
recordings, as I think it will make it more difficult to find a specific
movie.

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dbadia at gmail

May 29, 2012, 6:09 PM

Post #32 of 67 (1380 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 9:15 AM, digid myth <digidmyth [at] gmail> wrote:

> I for one do not want to see Videos and recorded content merged. At our
> house the are two very distinct things. For one recorded programs are, to
> be deleted when watched, videos are not. Recorded programs expire, videos
> do not. The kids have access to videos based on rating. They do not have
> access to recorded programs. To us they are and should remain two different
> sections.
>
> Dale
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv

http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
I agree completely. In our house, videos consist of thousands of home
videos which are organized by date in a directory structure. Merging home
videos with recordings just doesn't make sense in our case.

I'm not against providing options, but we really need to maintain the
current option of keeping this recordings and videos separate.

Thanks
Dave


david.whyte at gmail

May 29, 2012, 7:59 PM

Post #33 of 67 (1372 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 11:15 PM, digid myth <digidmyth [at] gmail> wrote:
> I for one do not want to see Videos and recorded content merged. At our
> house the are two very distinct things. For one recorded programs are, to be
> deleted when watched, videos are not. Recorded programs expire, videos do
> not. The kids have access to videos based on rating. They do not have access
> to recorded programs. To us they are and should remain two different
> sections.
>

Note sure if we need another 'me too' in this thread but I am another
that likes the current separation between the presentation of videos
and recordings. That said, I think that the two could be merged down
in the guts of mythTV and we could utilise the 'tagging' feature that
Mike has mentioned to provide different 'views' of the media we are
storing.

All-in-all, I think the 'tagging' feature that has been discussed a
little is something that most excites me about upcoming mythTV
releases.

Cheers,
Whytey
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nospam312 at gmail

May 30, 2012, 1:09 PM

Post #34 of 67 (1350 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

I did not expect to open a can of worms.

This is my vision (or dream if you like) hopefully explained a bit better.

(Really simplifying now - I get it this would be a huge task)

When I originally suggested that Recordings and Videos are combined I
was thinking the Recordings could be tagged with "Recordings" and
Videos tagged with "Videos".

Videos and Recordings have very similar data and I suspect and with a
few differences here and there they have a very similar interface to
the user. This would allow Myth to be maintained and upgraded easier
and make the overall experience to the user simpler.

If we have this tagging system in the theme you could display a button
for a "listing" for tag "recordings". You could display a button for
a "listing" for tag "Videos". This could all be combined into a
screen where the tags to display would also be fully selectable also.
I would define a button for a "listing" for tag "Videos and
Recordings" giving me my combined listing. Nothing is lost but
everything is gained!

The options are infinite - I could have tags for "User1" and "User2".
I could then in a theme display a button for a "listing" for tags
"recordings and user2" and perhaps with a specific option of "locked"
which would mean the tags can't be changed meaning this install/user
of mythfrontend would only be able to see these specifically tagged
recordings and nothing else.

I could even go as far to say yes lets include music also. You can
play music, pause it, fast forward it, if you have a graphic equaliser
or other visualisation (cover art) it even has a visual aspect just
like a video - it is very similar to Videos/Recordings.

Other special tags could replace Storage Groups, Recording Groups and the rest.

A single screen that allows you to view tagged "stuff" (perhaps music
but currently that may be taking it too far) is a huge change but I
think if it is done correctly with the necessary display options it
would make MythTV out of this world!
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seven at seven

May 30, 2012, 2:53 PM

Post #35 of 67 (1346 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 31 May 2012 06:09, nospam312 <nospam312 [at] gmail> wrote:

> I did not expect to open a can of worms.
>
> This is my vision (or dream if you like) hopefully explained a bit better.
>
> (Really simplifying now - I get it this would be a huge task)
>
> When I originally suggested that Recordings and Videos are combined I
> was thinking the Recordings could be tagged with "Recordings" and
> Videos tagged with "Videos".
>
> Videos and Recordings have very similar data and I suspect and with a
> few differences here and there they have a very similar interface to
> the user. This would allow Myth to be maintained and upgraded easier
> and make the overall experience to the user simpler.
>
> If we have this tagging system in the theme you could display a button
> for a "listing" for tag "recordings". You could display a button for
> a "listing" for tag "Videos". This could all be combined into a
> screen where the tags to display would also be fully selectable also.
> I would define a button for a "listing" for tag "Videos and
> Recordings" giving me my combined listing. Nothing is lost but
> everything is gained!
>
> The options are infinite - I could have tags for "User1" and "User2".
> I could then in a theme display a button for a "listing" for tags
> "recordings and user2" and perhaps with a specific option of "locked"
> which would mean the tags can't be changed meaning this install/user
> of mythfrontend would only be able to see these specifically tagged
> recordings and nothing else.
>
> I could even go as far to say yes lets include music also. You can
> play music, pause it, fast forward it, if you have a graphic equaliser
> or other visualisation (cover art) it even has a visual aspect just
> like a video - it is very similar to Videos/Recordings.
>
> Other special tags could replace Storage Groups, Recording Groups and the
> rest.
>
> A single screen that allows you to view tagged "stuff" (perhaps music
> but currently that may be taking it too far) is a huge change but I
> think if it is done correctly with the necessary display options it
> would make MythTV out of this world!
> _______________________________________________
>
>
My 2 cents and random thoughts,

Video Folder paths could also just be another tag, which would also allow
you to do the opposite with recordings to be displayed in videos in a
Recordings "Folder" which is read from the tag.

With music I always wanted the visualisation option to play music video if
available, music videos/Concerts for me are a grey area as are they aren't
really TV (Recording) nor a movie (Video) and actually fit better as music
and there really isn't a good source of metadata for music videos although
some concerts can be found in movie metadata....

Cheers,

Anthony


jedi at mishnet

May 30, 2012, 3:07 PM

Post #36 of 67 (1347 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 02:52:51PM +0000, Nasa wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > On 5/29/2012 09:34, Tom Lichti wrote:
> > > On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Lindsay Mathieson
> > > <lindsay.mathieson [at] gmail> wrote:
> > >> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:26:19 AM Tom Lichti wrote:
> > >>> And I disagree 110%. Media is media, regardless of the source,
> > >>
> > >> So you want your music mixed in with your videos? its all media
> > >> after all
> > >
> > > Sure, why not? :)
> > >
> > > I will rephrase my statement for clarity: "Video is video,
> > > regardless
> > > of the source"
> >
> > You want video recordings from your camera mixed in recordings from
> > your
> > tuners?
>
> Yes -- title it appropriately...

Done already. I have a top level directory entry specifically dedicated
for this with a name tweaked to ensure that this directory always sorts at
the top of thee list of all video content.

Stuff has to go somewhere.

[deletia]
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jedi at mishnet

May 30, 2012, 3:11 PM

Post #37 of 67 (1350 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 11:21:47AM -0400, Raymond Wagner wrote:
> On 5/29/2012 10:15, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:
> >On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:07:02 AM jedi wrote:
> >> For video compilations and concert videos, this would actually make
> >>a certain amount of sense. Soundtracks could also be stored with the
> >>movie they are from.
> >>
> >> The same performer appearing across different media types certainly isn't
> >>unheard of.
> >
> >Also, these are edge case - not general content. The vast majority of tv
> >recordings don't have anywhere near the amount of meta info for what you
> >describe to be possible.
>
> Seems like the first step would be to petition Travis Bell to get
> soundtrack listings and other such related content into the TMDB
> database.

Or you could just search the music metadata already present.

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nick.rout at gmail

May 30, 2012, 4:55 PM

Post #38 of 67 (1351 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 8:09 AM, nospam312 <nospam312 [at] gmail> wrote:
> I did not expect to open a can of worms.

Clearly you must be new here LOL

(PS your vision is a good one and I believe Michael Dean is working on tags)
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mythtv at theseekerr

May 31, 2012, 3:47 AM

Post #39 of 67 (1338 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 6:09 AM, nospam312 <nospam312 [at] gmail> wrote:

> When I originally suggested that Recordings and Videos are combined I
> was thinking the Recordings could be tagged with "Recordings" and
> Videos tagged with "Videos".
>
> Videos and Recordings have very similar data and I suspect and with a
> few differences here and there they have a very similar interface to
> the user. This would allow Myth to be maintained and upgraded easier
> and make the overall experience to the user simpler.
>

You see, that's the thing. They don't.

TV is, for now, primarily chronological. People watch it and discuss it for
a few days after it airs. Most television is disposable rubbish.

My videos are different. Everything in my videos library is something I
like, and they exist in a timeless void. Where I like my television in a
simple chronological list, I want to browse my videos as a gallery.

If, at some point in the far future, everything on television is broadcast
on time and can be watched without ads, I might find mixing the content
useful on a series-by-series basis. But right now, the metadata associated
with my recordings is, at best, a guide. Most of my recorded episodes of,
for instance, Castle are caught up in awkwardly named double episodes.
Thanks to the stupidity of Australian TV networks, the first 20 minutes is
likely to be overflow from some stupid reality show. Much of the time, the
ending has spilled onto the next show scheduled on that channel. If they
were interspersed with the clean episodes from my DVD's, it would drive me
insane.

- Chris


linux at thehobsons

May 31, 2012, 4:24 AM

Post #40 of 67 (1331 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

Christopher Kerr wrote:

>Videos and Recordings have very similar data and I suspect and with a
>few differences here and there they have a very similar interface to
>the user. This would allow Myth to be maintained and upgraded easier
>and make the overall experience to the user simpler.
>
>
>You see, that's the thing. They don't.
>
>TV is, for now, primarily chronological. People watch it and discuss
>it for a few days after it airs. Most television is disposable
>rubbish.
>
>My videos are different. Everything in my videos library is
>something I like, and they exist in a timeless void. Where I like my
>television in a simple chronological list, I want to browse my
>videos as a gallery.

But that's a somewhat arbitrary division.

Essentially, what you are saying is that if it came from TV then it
should be ditched after watching once, if it came on a DVD then it's
kept. OK, so what about stuff that can come on either ? What about
stuff you kept on TV, but then had to start getting on DVD ?

Earlier, someone asked "why would you want all your home videos mixed
up with TV ?", to which the corollary is "why would you want your
home video mixed up with TV series ?"

In other words, what's the primary difference between a series you
recorded on TV and kept, and the same thing bought on DVD ?

What I'm getting at is that some of the distinctions are arbitrary
and a matter of personal preference. I have a number of "subjects"
where part of a selection came from TV and part came on DVD.
Logically it makes sense to treat them as "one collection".

Yes there are differences in some of the details, but I see nothing
wrong with bringing TV and video closer. An episode of (for example)
"Morse" is an episode of Morse whether it was recorded off air or
bought on DVD. So the core data is the same. There are differences,
but I can't think of anything that should be insurmountable.

If tags gets implemented as it's been suggested, then those that want
TV and video to be different can filter accordingly - nothing will
appear to change and you'll be happy. Those that want to merge them
will be able to do so - and they'll be happy.
That's a key thing. If you want to keep TV and Video separate, then
merging and tagging should not prevent you doing that. If it's done
well, then you might not even notice there's been a change.

Many people will want different things at different times. That
should be easy too as long as the theme designers provide easy ways
to switch views. I'd imagine that "TV" will still be "TV" on the menu
but internally will be "media tagged as TV", and "Video" will still
be "Video" on the menu but internally will be "media tagged as Video".

I think the future could be good. Instead of navigating to TV, Video,
or Music and then to the track you want within that - you could
navigate to "media" and select the artist/genre and then decide what
track/album to watch. So I could listen to tracks I have on CD, DVD,
or TV in one session - instead of having to pop in and out of
different modes (model interfaces are so 1970's) to access them.

>Thanks to the stupidity of Australian TV networks, the first 20
>minutes is likely to be overflow from some stupid reality show. Much
>of the time, the ending has spilled onto the next show scheduled on
>that channel.

That's not unique to your networks :( A few minutes setting up
lossless transcode would allow you to cut the crap and just keep what
you want.

--
Simon Hobson

Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed
author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as
Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books.
_______________________________________________
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nasa01 at comcast

May 31, 2012, 4:32 AM

Post #41 of 67 (1330 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 6:09 AM, nospam312 < nospam312 [at] gmail >
> wrote:
>
>
> When I originally suggested that Recordings and Videos are combined I
> was thinking the Recordings could be tagged with "Recordings" and
> Videos tagged with "Videos".
>
> Videos and Recordings have very similar data and I suspect and with a
> few differences here and there they have a very similar interface to
> the user.  This would allow Myth to be maintained and upgraded easier
> and make the overall experience to the user simpler.
>
>
>
> You see, that's the thing. They don't.
>
>
> TV is, for now, primarily chronological. People watch it and discuss
> it for a few days after it airs. Most television is disposable
> rubbish.
>
>
> My videos are different. Everything in my videos library is something
> I like, and they exist in a timeless void. Where I like my television
> in a simple chronological list, I want to browse my videos as a
> gallery.
>
>
> If, at some point in the far future, everything on television is
> broadcast on time and can be watched without ads, I might find mixing
> the content useful on a series-by-series basis. But right now, the
> metadata associated with my recordings is, at best, a guide. Most of
> my recorded episodes of, for instance, Castle are caught up in
> awkwardly named double episodes. Thanks to the stupidity of Australian
> TV networks, the first 20 minutes is likely to be overflow from some
> stupid reality show. Much of the time, the ending has spilled onto the
> next show scheduled on that channel. If they were interspersed with
> the clean episodes from my DVD's, it would drive me insane.
>
>
> - Chris

So, just to add a couple more of my pennies into the pool -- I hate
having to switch between views to see a TV series. take "Burn Notice"
for example - I have 2 seasons on DVD and a bunch recorded, When I should
want to watch (or my someone else visiting) some of the series, they(I)
don't really care how it was stored on my server -- they(I) just want to
see the next episode. And when I am trying to "fill-in" missed episodes,
I really don't need the ones I have recorded, re-recorded. A unified
scheme would fit me better... But as said before, and I totally agree
with - I'll take what the nice developers give me, and be happy with it.

Nasa



> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
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lindsay.mathieson at gmail

May 31, 2012, 4:32 AM

Post #42 of 67 (1331 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Thu, 31 May 2012 12:24:14 PM Simon Hobson wrote:
> In other words, what's the primary difference between a series you
> recorded on TV and kept, and the same thing bought on DVD ?

And there's the key difference right there, which you will fully fail to see.
You *brought* the DVD because you want to keep it. The TV was recorded because
there was no cost, monetary or otherwise.

Also the DVD is much better quality, has no adverts, no padding. It has
extras. These things matter and place it in a different classification.

--
Lindsay
Attachments: signature.asc (0.19 KB)


nasa01 at comcast

May 31, 2012, 5:09 AM

Post #43 of 67 (1328 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
> On Thu, 31 May 2012 12:24:14 PM Simon Hobson wrote:
> > In other words, what's the primary difference between a series you
> > recorded on TV and kept, and the same thing bought on DVD ?
>
> And there's the key difference right there, which you will fully fail
> to see.
> You *brought* the DVD because you want to keep it. The TV was recorded
> because
> there was no cost, monetary or otherwise.
>
> Also the DVD is much better quality, has no adverts, no padding. It
> has
> extras. These things matter and place it in a different
> classification.

The DVD is not necessarly better quality - depends on how you are getting
your TV and how things are recorded on the DVD. I wouldn't go in making
that assumption (Blu-Ray being a different argument). And I don't care
about extras. I get DVD because I want the episodes. And there is a cost
to recording TV (space && electricity comes to mind).

Nasa


>
> --
> Lindsay
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
_______________________________________________
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linux at thehobsons

May 31, 2012, 5:56 AM

Post #44 of 67 (1329 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

Lindsay Mathieson wrote:

>And there's the key difference right there, which you will fully fail to see.
>You *brought* the DVD because you want to keep it. The TV was recorded because
>there was no cost, monetary or otherwise.
>
>Also the DVD is much better quality, has no adverts, no padding. It has
>extras. These things matter and place it in a different classification.

You assume too much about what I think. That may be how you treat it,
but that's not how I see it.

On digital, the broadcast quality is quite adequate - to be honest,
there's not a lot of difference between an SD DVD and SD Freeview (at
least for the BBC channels where they use a decent bitrate). Also, on
the non-commercial channels there aren't any in-program adverts.

In some cases I've bought DVDs simply because it's more convenient
than collecting the TV broadcasts and transferring them - not to
mention, I tend to buy them when I see them on offer, definitely not
at full price. So many of my DVDs have been bought for the
'convenience factor' rather than any quality difference.

And of course, there is the assumption that everything on TV is also
available on DVD.

--
Simon Hobson

Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed
author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as
Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books.
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linux at thehobsons

May 31, 2012, 6:19 AM

Post #45 of 67 (1325 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

What I think some people are missing is that no-one is suggesting
that anyone *has* to change from how they work now. If anyone wants
to keep TV and video separate then they will be able to do so - and
I'd expect the default for the later system to look just like the
system does now.

So for all those "I don't want to work that way" people - you won't
have to. If the suggestion ever makes it into reality, then for those
that do want to, they will have the option.

--
Simon Hobson

Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed
author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as
Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books.
_______________________________________________
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gnassas at mac

May 31, 2012, 6:28 AM

Post #46 of 67 (1330 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 2012-05-29, at 7:59 PM, Jean-Yves Avenard wrote:

> The torc iPad app allows you to have a combined view. Which I first thought: great, this is how it should be done... After using it for a little while I found that I treat the content differently. My recordings are ephemeral, I know 100% that I will not keep them. If there's a recording I like, I will source a video from a DVD. And for TV series, they are shows here so late that I would have sourced them from the US well in advance.
> It is also much easier for me to find content in split recordings/videos.

+1 to that. Conspicuously absent here is the sponsor of this merging notion. Could you speak up and say what would be gained and why a union query would suffice etc.

It would be a shame to repeat the UI business where good features got tossed, so-so ones were promoted, and there were bad vibes all around.

- George


mythtv-users at lists

May 31, 2012, 6:41 AM

Post #47 of 67 (1324 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

Simon Hobson wrote:
> Christopher Kerr wrote:
>>
>> My videos are different. Everything in my videos library is something
>> I like, and they exist in a timeless void. Where I like my television
>> in a simple chronological list, I want to browse my videos as a gallery.
>
> But that's a somewhat arbitrary division.
>
> Essentially, what you are saying is that if it came from TV then it
> should be ditched after watching once, if it came on a DVD then it's
> kept. OK, so what about stuff that can come on either ? What about stuff
> you kept on TV, but then had to start getting on DVD ?

You don't get it. If one wants to keep a TV show, then one has already a
userjob set up, which converts it and puts it in mythvideo. Mythvideo
acts as an archive for me and most people from what I read here. There's
a reason why there is no auto expire in mythvideo.

I don't see the point in mixing the two because of maybe 5% or less of
my recordings I want to keep too.

If you want to have your recordings in mythvideo, you can already do it
right now. Just use mythlink.pl to create the links inside your video
folder and everybody is happy.
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linux at thehobsons

May 31, 2012, 7:14 AM

Post #48 of 67 (1325 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

Thomas Boehm wrote:

>If one wants to keep a TV show, then one has already a
>userjob set up, which converts it and puts it in mythvideo.

Keeping all the metadata ?

But actually, no I don't already have a job setup for that - one of
many things I haven't got round to doing.

--
Simon Hobson

Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed
author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as
Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books.
_______________________________________________
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tom at redpepperracing

May 31, 2012, 7:27 AM

Post #49 of 67 (1327 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Thomas Boehm
<mythtv-users [at] lists> wrote:
> Simon Hobson wrote:
>> Christopher Kerr wrote:
>>>
>>> My videos are different. Everything in my videos library is something
>>> I like, and they exist in a timeless void. Where I like my television
>>> in a simple chronological list, I want to browse my videos as a gallery.
>>
>> But that's a somewhat arbitrary division.
>>
>> Essentially, what you are saying is that if it came from TV then it
>> should be ditched after watching once, if it came on a DVD then it's
>> kept. OK, so what about stuff that can come on either ? What about stuff
>> you kept on TV, but then had to start getting on DVD ?
>
> You don't get it. If one wants to keep a TV show, then one has already a
> userjob set up, which converts it and puts it in mythvideo. Mythvideo
> acts as an archive for me and most people from what I read here. There's
> a reason why there is no auto expire in mythvideo.
>
> I don't see the point in mixing the two because of maybe 5% or less of
> my recordings I want to keep too.
>
> If you want to have your recordings in mythvideo, you can already do it
> right now. Just use mythlink.pl to create the links inside your video
> folder and everybody is happy.

No, you don't get it, I was not happy with that solution. We hate the
interface to Videos, so I have hacked a system that makes Videos show
up in the Recordings screen, as it's more intuitive to use, and better
organized for our usage, and works well enough, with the occasional
manual tweaking required.

For our use case, this works. For your use case, it doesn't work. Your
use case isn't superior to mine, nor is mine to yours, just different,
I don't get why I need to be forced to use your scenario, especially
if there is a potential solution that can fit both use cases.

Again, I'm not sure why we are arguing about this, and why people have
such a vehement opinion about it, nothing has been changed, and
nothing has even formally been proposed, other than an idea floated by
Michael Dean. I'm sure he's chuckling away somewhere... :)

Tom
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jedi at mishnet

May 31, 2012, 7:58 AM

Post #50 of 67 (1320 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 08:47:36PM +1000, Christopher Kerr wrote:
> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 6:09 AM, nospam312 <nospam312 [at] gmail> wrote:
>
> > When I originally suggested that Recordings and Videos are combined I
> > was thinking the Recordings could be tagged with "Recordings" and
> > Videos tagged with "Videos".
> >
> > Videos and Recordings have very similar data and I suspect and with a
> > few differences here and there they have a very similar interface to
> > the user. This would allow Myth to be maintained and upgraded easier
> > and make the overall experience to the user simpler.
> >
>
> You see, that's the thing. They don't.
>
> TV is, for now, primarily chronological. People watch it and discuss it for
> a few days after it airs. Most television is disposable rubbish.
>
> My videos are different. Everything in my videos library is something I
> like, and they exist in a timeless void. Where I like my television in a
> simple chronological list, I want to browse my videos as a gallery.

Plenty of non-disposable video is chronological.

That's whyy I have advocated the "cursor" concept for mythvideo forquite
some time. Keep track of where you are in a TV series or Movie collection
and automatically be directed to the current or next item when you visit it
again.

>
> If, at some point in the far future, everything on television is broadcast
> on time and can be watched without ads, I might find mixing the content
> useful on a series-by-series basis. But right now, the metadata associated
> with my recordings is, at best, a guide. Most of my recorded episodes of,
> for instance, Castle are caught up in awkwardly named double episodes.
> Thanks to the stupidity of Australian TV networks, the first 20 minutes is
> likely to be overflow from some stupid reality show. Much of the time, the
> ending has spilled onto the next show scheduled on that channel. If they
> were interspersed with the clean episodes from my DVD's, it would drive me
> insane.

Alternately, MythTV could tell you that the thing you are trying to watch
from the recordings is a already in your DVD archive othat the next thing
after what youu watched from your DVD archive is sitting in the recordings.
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jedi at mishnet

May 31, 2012, 8:03 AM

Post #51 of 67 (2580 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 02:19:28PM +0100, Simon Hobson wrote:
> What I think some people are missing is that no-one is suggesting
> that anyone *has* to change from how they work now. If anyone wants
> to keep TV and video separate then they will be able to do so - and
> I'd expect the default for the later system to look just like the
> system does now.
>
> So for all those "I don't want to work that way" people - you won't
> have to. If the suggestion ever makes it into reality, then for
> those that do want to, they will have the option.

Given whatt happened with MythMusic, I cancertainly understand
why some people might wish to declare their satisfaction level with
the status quoo and their disinterestin things being changed.

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mythtv-users at lists

May 31, 2012, 9:49 AM

Post #52 of 67 (2575 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

Simon Hobson wrote:
> Thomas Boehm wrote:
>
>> If one wants to keep a TV show, then one has already a
>> userjob set up, which converts it and puts it in mythvideo.
>
> Keeping all the metadata ?

Yep, if you follow the file naming conventions then MythTV will take
care of it and fetch it from TheTVDB and TMDB. On top of that I also
write the metadata which MythTV got from the EPG in the MKV file itself
with mkvmerge.



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mythtv-users2 at dwilga-linux1

May 31, 2012, 10:42 AM

Post #53 of 67 (2570 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 5/31/12 6:47 AM, Christopher Kerr wrote:
> TV is, for now, primarily chronological. People watch it and discuss
> it for a few days after it airs. Most television is disposable rubbish.
>
If you're ever in Massachusetts, maybe you should stop by our house :-).
We have over 3,000 TV recordings. Some are new things we watch daily (in
the case of our kids, over and over), many are archived things that we
might want to watch again someday, but most are programs that sit around
for months and even years before we watch them for the first time. We
still have every episode of Heroes and Fringe, but have yet to watch any
of them.

My point is that you cannot make generalizations about the "best" way to
use this technology. Everyone will use it differently.

--
Dan Wilga "Ook."

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davebrown099 at gmail

May 31, 2012, 11:13 AM

Post #54 of 67 (2578 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

<Snip>

If you want to have your recordings in mythvideo, you can already do it
> right now. Just use mythlink.pl to create the links inside your video
> folder and everybody is happy.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

Better way

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythvidexport.py


adeffs.mythtv at gmail

May 31, 2012, 1:46 PM

Post #55 of 67 (2567 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Tom Lichti <tom [at] redpepperracing> wrote:
> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Thomas Boehm
> <mythtv-users [at] lists> wrote:
>> Simon Hobson wrote:
>>> Christopher Kerr wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My videos are different. Everything in my videos library is something
>>>> I like, and they exist in a timeless void. Where I like my television
>>>> in a simple chronological list, I want to browse my videos as a gallery.
>>>
>>> But that's a somewhat arbitrary division.
>>>
>>> Essentially, what you are saying is that if it came from TV then it
>>> should be ditched after watching once, if it came on a DVD then it's
>>> kept. OK, so what about stuff that can come on either ? What about stuff
>>> you kept on TV, but then had to start getting on DVD ?
>>
>> You don't get it. If one wants to keep a TV show, then one has already a
>> userjob set up, which converts it and puts it in mythvideo. Mythvideo
>> acts as an archive for me and most people from what I read here. There's
>> a reason why there is no auto expire in mythvideo.
>>
>> I don't see the point in mixing the two because of maybe 5% or less of
>> my recordings I want to keep too.
>>
>> If you want to have your recordings in mythvideo, you can already do it
>> right now. Just use mythlink.pl to create the links inside your video
>> folder and everybody is happy.
>
> No, you don't get it, I was not happy with that solution. We hate the
> interface to Videos, so I have hacked a system that makes Videos show
> up in the Recordings screen, as it's more intuitive to use, and better
> organized for our usage, and works well enough, with the occasional
> manual tweaking required.
>
> For our use case, this works. For your use case, it doesn't work. Your
> use case isn't superior to mine, nor is mine to yours, just different,
> I don't get why I need to be forced to use your scenario, especially
> if there is a potential solution that can fit both use cases.
>
> Again, I'm not sure why we are arguing about this, and why people have
> such a vehement opinion about it, nothing has been changed, and
> nothing has even formally been proposed, other than an idea floated by
> Michael Dean. I'm sure he's chuckling away somewhere... :)
>
> Tom

in theory, whomever is going to do anything, will hopefully read this
thread for ideas, and as to whether to proceed or not. that said, that
was not the case with the MythMusic overhaul, so, yea...

First, as with when most things change, sometimes a paradigm shift
needs to occur. I hold no respect for those incapable of accepting
paradigm shifts for the greater good. That said, I hate change for the
worse, so lets not see if these concerns can't be managed and
integrated into a more easily accepted solution.

From what I can tell, the two main arguments against the ideas of integration.

First is how things like home videos, and the like, should not be
integrated into a user interaction system that is basically designed
for TV shows (ie the Watch Recordings screen).
I have to agree about this, I don't have home videos, but I can see
how that would be initially confusing, and organizationally odd. That
said, I could see how, with proper planning, this situation could be
handled smoothly with some added features to the the interface of the
Watch Recordings screen.

The other is the concept of the temporary nature of recordings vs the
permanency of other sourced material.
For this, while I can see the initial concern, it seems based on the
idea that the issues could not be easily overcome. I'm trying to
understand Mr Kerr's concern about mixing tv recorded episodes and
"saved"(ie physical media sourced, or transcoded recordings) episodes.
If I understand correctly, his concerns are that
- he may delete episodes he means to keep?
- that he won't know that a recording is a recording and will be
deleted over time?

So let me throw out some idea as to how this could be done, with these
two concerns in mind.

First, "Groups" needs to be converted to a tags system. I think this
is obvious and somewhat regardless of any other changes. Minimally it
would work the same, but put to good use would provide a high level of
powerful filtering. So lets assume, from the beginning that whether
this occurs before, or as part of, the integration, that this is a
component we get to work with.
Lets also, for the sake of clarity, continue to refer to non-tv
recorded material as Videos, and tv as, well, TV.
Automatic tagging of Videos by their stored folder location, should
occur, and should be dynamic. How this occurs, auto-naming by folder
name, or by a specific user given tag name for items in that folder is
of no concern overall.
IE if one has a "Home Videos" folder in their Videos heirarchy, all
videos under that will be auto-tagged with that folders tag.
in such a way, ripped movies, placed in a "Movies" folder, could then
also be auto-tagged as "Movie", etc.
A tag feature that would be useful to solve some of the issues are the
idea of "root" tags, or tags that have a greater hierarchical
significance, "Categories" we'll call them, some will be built in,
others can be created by the user. Built-in ones, which will have
special functioning in the interface should include: Recorded, TV
Shows, and Movies. Perhaps others?

From there, the newly integrated playback selection screen, "Watch
Stuff" we'll call it for now, should have some features that allow for
more filtered separation of videos by their tags and metadata.
Right now, if the theme developer chooses, they can have the Watch
Recordings screen display Recording Groups and allow the user to
easily switch between them, and all recordings, using a mappable
button, which i think defaults to track/chapter forward and
track/chapter back on the remote. We could use this feature concept to
allow the user to switch between the Categories such that what is
displayed is filtered by what is selected.

From here, two view types would be possible, one that caters to
Title/subtitle metadata (tv shows, home videos, etc) and another to
Title metadata (ie Movies).

For the built in Categories of Recorded and TV Shows, (and whatever
else is come up with), they can default to Title/subtitle metadata,
Movies, etc to just Title metadata. This would be displayed much like
the current Watch Recordings screen. The views should mesh such that
there is not big visual switch in how the display looks, just a slight
change in how the data is presented.

The "All" view should however have some special features in it's Title column.

Recorded should be the initial entry point, and of course show only
recorded shows in the order the user chooses (ie right now the user
can choose what chronological order recordings are displayed, this
would stay and be used for this category) which then mimics the
current initial view upon entering Watch Recordings, and give the user
a clearly displayed view of what has been recorded in their preferred
sort order.

The ability to have other Categories with only Title metadata as their
view in the title column could be had too so Movies would get an entry
in All as well.

I think this would not be too far off of what we're all used to now,
while integrating MythVideo and Watch Recordings, while meeting the
issues people have voiced so far.


--
Steve
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User:Steveadeff
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions
then search the Wiki, and this list,
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/
Mailinglist etiquette - http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mailing_List_etiquette
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dekarl at spaetfruehstuecken

May 31, 2012, 1:56 PM

Post #56 of 67 (2566 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 29.05.2012 15:31, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:26:19 AM Tom Lichti wrote:
>> And I disagree 110%. Media is media, regardless of the source,
>
> So you want your music mixed in with your videos? its all media after all

... and I want my VOD content from mythnetvision in there, too.
Preferably as a recording as the stations are only allowed to publish
most content for 7 days over here.

Regards,
Karl
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mythtv-users at lists

May 31, 2012, 2:06 PM

Post #57 of 67 (2562 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

Karl Dietz wrote:
> ... and I want my VOD content from mythnetvision in there, too.
> Preferably as a recording as the stations are only allowed to publish
> most content for 7 days over here.

get_iplayer --get ...
mythnettv importlocal ...

If you can get it through an RSS feed, then just mythnettv will do.
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pc-mythtv08a at crowcastle

May 31, 2012, 5:38 PM

Post #58 of 67 (2563 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

Lots of good discussion here, but I don't think we're going far enough.
Why shouldn't we merge videos, recordings, photos, and games into a
generic "media" storage? I'm serious here--hear me out. (Besides, what
is Mythgame but a clone of Mythvideo using external media players that
happen to be game emulators instead of video players?)

There are two things to consider, and they can be independent: How do
we track things in the database, and how do we display them in the user
interface. In general, if we segregate things in the backend database,
it is difficult to merge them in the user interface, but going the other
way is easy.

So what we need to track media is a combination of tags and metadata.
I'll define a tag as a value that is either present or absent for a
media file, like "game" or "auto-expire." A metadatum is much like a
tag, but it is a key-value pair, such as "Title: Babylon 5" or "Cutlist:
<internal reference>." (Of course, my tags could just be metadata with
a blank value for the key, which might further simplify the implementation.)

If we converted all our current media stores to use tags and metadata in
a manner like I described, we could then easily merge things in
interesting ways, probably including many that developers never
considered. For example, a good music playlist system could be used for
slideshows of photos.

The user interface could stay the same with this change, and new options
could be provided that combine and segregate various media types in
different ways. The goal for the backend design should be to provide
maximum flexibility for the frontend.
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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

Jun 1, 2012, 6:05 AM

Post #59 of 67 (2546 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Preston Crow
<pc-mythtv08a [at] crowcastle> wrote:
> Lots of good discussion here, but I don't think we're going far enough.  Why
> shouldn't we merge videos, recordings, photos, and games into a generic
> "media" storage?  I'm serious here--hear me out.  (Besides, what is Mythgame
> but a clone of Mythvideo using external media players that happen to be game
> emulators instead of video players?)
>
> There are two things to consider, and they can be independent:  How do we
> track things in the database, and how do we display them in the user
> interface.  In general, if we segregate things in the backend database, it
> is difficult to merge them in the user interface, but going the other way is
> easy.
>
> So what we need to track media is a combination of tags and metadata. I'll
> define a tag as a value that is either present or absent for a media file,
> like "game" or "auto-expire."  A metadatum is much like a tag, but it is a
> key-value pair, such as "Title: Babylon 5" or "Cutlist: <internal
> reference>."  (Of course, my tags could just be metadata with a blank value
> for the key, which might further simplify the implementation.)
>
> If we converted all our current media stores to use tags and metadata in a
> manner like I described, we could then easily merge things in interesting
> ways, probably including many that developers never considered.  For
> example, a good music playlist system could be used for slideshows of
> photos.
>
> The user interface could stay the same with this change, and new options
> could be provided that combine and segregate various media types in
> different ways.  The goal for the backend design should be to provide
> maximum flexibility for the frontend.

my only comment to that is, build the framework for this first by
merging the obvious (recordings and mythvideo), building in the
ability to add anything else, then merge the rest in.

otherwise, I agree, it's possible, and would not be a huge paradigm
shift once the initial merge is accomplished.

my one fear though, mostly because of the debacle that is the new
MythMusic, is that without the right people handling it, it could turn
into a cluster<expletive>.

--
Steve
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User:Steveadeff
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions
then search the Wiki, and this list,
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/
Mailinglist etiquette - http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mailing_List_etiquette
_______________________________________________
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nick.rout at gmail

Jun 1, 2012, 4:49 PM

Post #60 of 67 (2547 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 1:05 AM, Steven Adeff <adeffs.mythtv [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Preston Crow
> <pc-mythtv08a [at] crowcastle> wrote:
>> Lots of good discussion here, but I don't think we're going far enough.  Why
>> shouldn't we merge videos, recordings, photos, and games into a generic
>> "media" storage?  I'm serious here--hear me out.  (Besides, what is Mythgame
>> but a clone of Mythvideo using external media players that happen to be game
>> emulators instead of video players?)
>>
>> There are two things to consider, and they can be independent:  How do we
>> track things in the database, and how do we display them in the user
>> interface.  In general, if we segregate things in the backend database, it
>> is difficult to merge them in the user interface, but going the other way is
>> easy.
>>
>> So what we need to track media is a combination of tags and metadata. I'll
>> define a tag as a value that is either present or absent for a media file,
>> like "game" or "auto-expire."  A metadatum is much like a tag, but it is a
>> key-value pair, such as "Title: Babylon 5" or "Cutlist: <internal
>> reference>."  (Of course, my tags could just be metadata with a blank value
>> for the key, which might further simplify the implementation.)
>>
>> If we converted all our current media stores to use tags and metadata in a
>> manner like I described, we could then easily merge things in interesting
>> ways, probably including many that developers never considered.  For
>> example, a good music playlist system could be used for slideshows of
>> photos.
>>
>> The user interface could stay the same with this change, and new options
>> could be provided that combine and segregate various media types in
>> different ways.  The goal for the backend design should be to provide
>> maximum flexibility for the frontend.
>
> my only comment to that is, build the framework for this first by
> merging the obvious (recordings and mythvideo), building in the
> ability to add anything else, then merge the rest in.
>
> otherwise, I agree, it's possible, and would not be a huge paradigm
> shift once the initial merge is accomplished.
>
> my one fear though, mostly because of the debacle that is the new
> MythMusic, is that without the right people handling it, it could turn
> into a cluster<expletive>.

When I read this thread I think, yeah merge everything and give us
plenty of tags.

For example we have had a major disaster here last year, an earthquake. I have:

* photos I took
* videos I took
* photos others took and gave to me or I downloaded from web sites
* links to web pages with quake info, news, official photos, royal
commission hearings etc etc
* recorded and saved tv news programmes from the days after the quake
* videos downloaded from youtube
* two versions of a doco movie (one broadcast on the anniversary (in
recordings) and one from the dvd which is longer and in video)

Why not be able to bring them up all at once? Bring up the earthquake tag.

Same could go for a recent holiday - photos, videos, doco on the location etc.
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mtdean at thirdcontact

Jun 8, 2012, 5:26 AM

Post #61 of 67 (2476 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 05/31/2012 10:27 AM, Tom Lichti wrote:
> No, you don't get it, I was not happy with that solution. We hate the
> interface to Videos,

FWIW, I felt the exact same way--until I was taught how to properly
configure Video Library (which I had been doing wrong--primarily because
the proper configuration, today, is different from the default
configuration of the past). Now, I have an appreciation for what Video
Library brings

Specifically, you want to go into each of the 3 "views" available in
Video Library (Gallery, Browse, and List) and "Show Directory Structure"
(meaning the MENU should offer, "Hide Directory Structure," to allow you
to change the setting) and enable "Browse Library (recommended)"
(meaning the MENU should say, "Browse Filesystem (slow)," to allow you
to change the setting). Then, once you've configured all 3 views
appropriately, choose the one whose interface looks best to you/works
best for you.

(Note that in 0.24 and below, these settings were "Enable/Disable Flat
view" and "File Browse Mode"--where you wanted both disabled.)

A friend of mine who uses MythTV had a similar change of heart when I
helped him reconfigure Video Library when he wanted to organize his
kids' videos (which he has to keep so the kids can watch them hundreds
of times, each :)--some of which were recorded, some from DVD rips,
etc. Once we set up Video Library properly, the interface was /much/
easier for the kids than it would have been if everything were in Watch
Recordings. And in Video Library, he can set a default filter on each
frontend, so the kids' frontend opens right up to their videos.

> so I have hacked a system that makes Videos show
> up in the Recordings screen, as it's more intuitive to use, and better
> organized for our usage, and works well enough, with the occasional
> manual tweaking required.

And, now that I've configured Video Library properly, I feel it's /much/
more intuitive to use and better organized--especially for large
collections of video.

The difference is that in Watch Recordings, I get a single recording
group for each recording, and I can show a list of titles, recording
groups, categories and/or filter by recording group or category--but
changing view requires MENU (once or twice, as required)|Change Group
Filter, then selecting a filter. In Video Library, I can create folders
to organize my videos however I like, and can browse between folders as
simply as hitting left/right--but I /still/ have the ability to apply
filters based on everything from category to genre to year to user
rating to watched status to date the video was added to the library...
Also, in Video Library, all my videos can be given useful file
names--such that even if I lose the MythTV database, I know what each
video is (and Video Library can pull the metadata automatically). There
are other benefits, too, but these are the main ones.

IMHO, anyone who archives any recordings--as opposed to simply watching
and deleting the recordings--should consider moving those recordings to
Video Library. Watch Recordings is great for "ephemeral" recordings
that appear/disappear, but Video Library is great for "permanent"
storage of (even large numbers of) videos you actually want to keep.

Anyway, the point of this post is that those who have written off Video
Library should take a new look at today's Video Library (when properly
configured). It's not your grandfather's Video Library... ;)

Mike
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tom at redpepperracing

Jun 8, 2012, 7:17 AM

Post #62 of 67 (2478 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Michael T. Dean <mtdean [at] thirdcontact> wrote:
> On 05/31/2012 10:27 AM, Tom Lichti wrote:
>>
>> No, you don't get it, I was not happy with that solution. We hate the
>> interface to Videos,
>
>
> FWIW, I felt the exact same way--until I was taught how to properly
> configure Video Library (which I had been doing wrong--primarily because the
> proper configuration, today, is different from the default configuration of
> the past).  Now, I have an appreciation for what Video Library brings
>
> Specifically, you want to go into each of the 3 "views" available in Video
> Library (Gallery, Browse, and List) and "Show Directory Structure" (meaning
> the MENU should offer, "Hide Directory Structure," to allow you to change
> the setting) and enable "Browse Library (recommended)" (meaning the MENU
> should say, "Browse Filesystem (slow)," to allow you to change the setting).
>  Then, once you've configured all 3 views appropriately, choose the one
> whose interface looks best to you/works best for you.
>
> (Note that in 0.24 and below, these settings were "Enable/Disable Flat view"
> and "File Browse Mode"--where you wanted both disabled.)
>
> A friend of mine who uses MythTV had a similar change of heart when I helped
> him reconfigure Video Library when he wanted to organize his kids' videos
> (which he has to keep so the kids can watch them hundreds of times, each
> :)--some of which were recorded, some from DVD rips, etc.  Once we set up
> Video Library properly, the interface was /much/ easier for the kids than it
> would have been if everything were in Watch Recordings.  And in Video
> Library, he can set a default filter on each frontend, so the kids' frontend
> opens right up to their videos.
>
>
>>  so I have hacked a system that makes Videos show
>> up in the Recordings screen, as it's more intuitive to use, and better
>> organized for our usage, and works well enough, with the occasional
>> manual tweaking required.
>
>
> And, now that I've configured Video Library properly, I feel it's /much/
> more intuitive to use and better organized--especially for large collections
> of video.
>
> The difference is that in Watch Recordings, I get a single recording group
> for each recording, and I can show a list of titles, recording groups,
> categories and/or filter by recording group or category--but changing view
> requires MENU (once or twice, as required)|Change Group Filter, then
> selecting a filter.  In Video Library, I can create folders to organize my
> videos however I like, and can browse between folders as simply as hitting
> left/right--but I /still/ have the ability to apply filters based on
> everything from category to genre to year to user rating to watched status
> to date the video was added to the library...  Also, in Video Library, all
> my videos can be given useful file names--such that even if I lose the
> MythTV database, I know what each video is (and Video Library can pull the
> metadata automatically).  There are other benefits, too, but these are the
> main ones.
>
> IMHO, anyone who archives any recordings--as opposed to simply watching and
> deleting the recordings--should consider moving those recordings to Video
> Library.  Watch Recordings is great for "ephemeral" recordings that
> appear/disappear, but Video Library is great for "permanent" storage of
> (even large numbers of) videos you actually want to keep.
>
> Anyway, the point of this post is that those who have written off Video
> Library should take a new look at today's Video Library (when properly
> configured).  It's not your grandfather's Video Library...  ;)
>
> Mike

Thanks Mike, I'll give that a go. I've never really gone back and
played with the Video Library since setting it up originally, at least
6 years ago.

Tom
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mtdean at thirdcontact

Jun 8, 2012, 8:00 AM

Post #63 of 67 (2477 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 06/08/2012 10:17 AM, Tom Lichti wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>> On 05/31/2012 10:27 AM, Tom Lichti wrote:
>>> No, you don't get it, I was not happy with that solution. We hate the
>>> interface to Videos,
>>
>> FWIW, I felt the exact same way--until I was taught how to properly
>> configure Video Library (which I had been doing wrong--primarily because the
>> proper configuration, today, is different from the default configuration of
>> the past). Now, I have an appreciation for what Video Library brings
>>
>> Specifically, you want to go into each of the 3 "views" available in Video
>> Library (Gallery, Browse, and List) and "Show Directory Structure" (meaning
>> the MENU should offer, "Hide Directory Structure," to allow you to change
>> the setting) and enable "Browse Library (recommended)" (meaning the MENU
>> should say, "Browse Filesystem (slow)," to allow you to change the setting).
>> Then, once you've configured all 3 views appropriately, choose the one
>> whose interface looks best to you/works best for you.
>>
>> (Note that in 0.24 and below, these settings were "Enable/Disable Flat view"
>> and "File Browse Mode"--where you wanted both disabled.)
>>
>> A friend of mine who uses MythTV had a similar change of heart when I helped
>> him reconfigure Video Library when he wanted to organize his kids' videos
>> (which he has to keep so the kids can watch them hundreds of times, each
>> :)--some of which were recorded, some from DVD rips, etc. Once we set up
>> Video Library properly, the interface was /much/ easier for the kids than it
>> would have been if everything were in Watch Recordings. And in Video
>> Library, he can set a default filter on each frontend, so the kids' frontend
>> opens right up to their videos.
>>
>>
>>> so I have hacked a system that makes Videos show
>>> up in the Recordings screen, as it's more intuitive to use, and better
>>> organized for our usage, and works well enough, with the occasional
>>> manual tweaking required.
>>
>> And, now that I've configured Video Library properly, I feel it's /much/
>> more intuitive to use and better organized--especially for large collections
>> of video.
>>
>> The difference is that in Watch Recordings, I get a single recording group
>> for each recording, and I can show a list of titles, recording groups,
>> categories and/or filter by recording group or category--but changing view
>> requires MENU (once or twice, as required)|Change Group Filter, then
>> selecting a filter. In Video Library, I can create folders to organize my
>> videos however I like, and can browse between folders as simply as hitting
>> left/right--but I /still/ have the ability to apply filters based on
>> everything from category to genre to year to user rating to watched status
>> to date the video was added to the library... Also, in Video Library, all
>> my videos can be given useful file names--such that even if I lose the
>> MythTV database, I know what each video is (and Video Library can pull the
>> metadata automatically). There are other benefits, too, but these are the
>> main ones.
>>
>> IMHO, anyone who archives any recordings--as opposed to simply watching and
>> deleting the recordings--should consider moving those recordings to Video
>> Library. Watch Recordings is great for "ephemeral" recordings that
>> appear/disappear, but Video Library is great for "permanent" storage of
>> (even large numbers of) videos you actually want to keep.
>>
>> Anyway, the point of this post is that those who have written off Video
>> Library should take a new look at today's Video Library (when properly
>> configured). It's not your grandfather's Video Library... ;)
> Thanks Mike, I'll give that a go. I've never really gone back and
> played with the Video Library since setting it up originally, at least
> 6 years ago.

Thank you for keeping an open mind and for taking another look. And, as
I'm a pretty strong believer in this approach, I'd appreciate any
feedback you (or others) have on it--and anything you find lacking--as
you look at Video Library, again, with fresh eyes.

As we move toward a more unified recordings and video schema, some of
the differences disappear, but I want to ensure that there's absolutely
no reason that someone would need to hack together an approach to "fake"
a recording to allow them to stick non-recording (or at least,
not-recorded-by-*this*-MythTV-system--i.e. if you lose the database from
an old system in some catastrophe or something) video into recording
schema. Any user-provided/user-managed/user-named video should go in
Video Library. (For the purposes of this thought exercise, just pretend
that it's irrelevant whether you use Watch Recordings or Video Library.)

Mike
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tom at redpepperracing

Jun 8, 2012, 8:13 AM

Post #64 of 67 (2482 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Michael T. Dean
<mtdean [at] thirdcontact> wrote:
> On 06/08/2012 10:17 AM, Tom Lichti wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>>>
>>> On 05/31/2012 10:27 AM, Tom Lichti wrote:
>>>>
>>>> No, you don't get it, I was not happy with that solution. We hate the
>>>> interface to Videos,
>>>
>>>
>>> FWIW, I felt the exact same way--until I was taught how to properly
>>> configure Video Library (which I had been doing wrong--primarily because
>>> the
>>> proper configuration, today, is different from the default configuration
>>> of
>>> the past).  Now, I have an appreciation for what Video Library brings
>>>
>>> Specifically, you want to go into each of the 3 "views" available in
>>> Video
>>> Library (Gallery, Browse, and List) and "Show Directory Structure"
>>> (meaning
>>> the MENU should offer, "Hide Directory Structure," to allow you to change
>>> the setting) and enable "Browse Library (recommended)" (meaning the MENU
>>> should say, "Browse Filesystem (slow)," to allow you to change the
>>> setting).
>>>  Then, once you've configured all 3 views appropriately, choose the one
>>> whose interface looks best to you/works best for you.
>>>
>>> (Note that in 0.24 and below, these settings were "Enable/Disable Flat
>>> view"
>>> and "File Browse Mode"--where you wanted both disabled.)
>>>
>>> A friend of mine who uses MythTV had a similar change of heart when I
>>> helped
>>> him reconfigure Video Library when he wanted to organize his kids' videos
>>> (which he has to keep so the kids can watch them hundreds of times, each
>>> :)--some of which were recorded, some from DVD rips, etc.  Once we set up
>>> Video Library properly, the interface was /much/ easier for the kids than
>>> it
>>> would have been if everything were in Watch Recordings.  And in Video
>>> Library, he can set a default filter on each frontend, so the kids'
>>> frontend
>>> opens right up to their videos.
>>>
>>>
>>>>  so I have hacked a system that makes Videos show
>>>> up in the Recordings screen, as it's more intuitive to use, and better
>>>> organized for our usage, and works well enough, with the occasional
>>>> manual tweaking required.
>>>
>>>
>>> And, now that I've configured Video Library properly, I feel it's /much/
>>> more intuitive to use and better organized--especially for large
>>> collections
>>> of video.
>>>
>>> The difference is that in Watch Recordings, I get a single recording
>>> group
>>> for each recording, and I can show a list of titles, recording groups,
>>> categories and/or filter by recording group or category--but changing
>>> view
>>> requires MENU (once or twice, as required)|Change Group Filter, then
>>> selecting a filter.  In Video Library, I can create folders to organize
>>> my
>>> videos however I like, and can browse between folders as simply as
>>> hitting
>>> left/right--but I /still/ have the ability to apply filters based on
>>> everything from category to genre to year to user rating to watched
>>> status
>>> to date the video was added to the library...  Also, in Video Library,
>>> all
>>> my videos can be given useful file names--such that even if I lose the
>>> MythTV database, I know what each video is (and Video Library can pull
>>> the
>>> metadata automatically).  There are other benefits, too, but these are
>>> the
>>> main ones.
>>>
>>> IMHO, anyone who archives any recordings--as opposed to simply watching
>>> and
>>> deleting the recordings--should consider moving those recordings to Video
>>> Library.  Watch Recordings is great for "ephemeral" recordings that
>>> appear/disappear, but Video Library is great for "permanent" storage of
>>> (even large numbers of) videos you actually want to keep.
>>>
>>> Anyway, the point of this post is that those who have written off Video
>>> Library should take a new look at today's Video Library (when properly
>>> configured).  It's not your grandfather's Video Library...  ;)
>>
>> Thanks Mike, I'll give that a go. I've never really gone back and
>>
>> played with the Video Library since setting it up originally, at least
>> 6 years ago.
>
>
> Thank you for keeping an open mind and for taking another look.  And, as I'm
> a pretty strong believer in this approach, I'd appreciate any feedback you
> (or others) have on it--and anything you find lacking--as you look at Video
> Library, again, with fresh eyes.
>
> As we move toward a more unified recordings and video schema, some of the
> differences disappear, but I want to ensure that there's absolutely no
> reason that someone would need to hack together an approach to "fake" a
> recording to allow them to stick non-recording (or at least,
> not-recorded-by-*this*-MythTV-system--i.e. if you lose the database from an
> old system in some catastrophe or something) video into recording schema.
>  Any user-provided/user-managed/user-named video should go in Video Library.
>  (For the purposes of this thought exercise, just pretend that it's
> irrelevant whether you use Watch Recordings or Video Library.)

If it makes my life easier, I'm all for it. If the side benefit is
that it helps someone else, even better!

Tom
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mythtv at hambone

Jun 8, 2012, 1:23 PM

Post #65 of 67 (2469 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Michael T. Dean <mtdean [at] thirdcontact>wrote:

Specifically, you want to go into each of the 3 "views" available in Video
> Library (Gallery, Browse, and List) and "Show Directory Structure" (meaning
> the MENU should offer, "Hide Directory Structure," to allow you to change
> the setting) and enable "Browse Library (recommended)" (meaning the MENU
> should say, "Browse Filesystem (slow)," to allow you to change the
> setting). Then, once you've configured all 3 views appropriately, choose
> the one whose interface looks best to you/works best for you.
>
>
I'm having difficulty seeing the fanart when I switch to "Browse Library
(recommended)" It all disappears and reappears when I switch back to
"Browse Filesystem (slow)". Is this expected behavior? I'm also crashing
mythfrontend when I change this setting back and forth, but that's another
issue.

I just upgraded to 0.25/fixes a few days ago (via rpmfusion on FC16).
Here's the relevant version information:

[mythtv [at] siriu ~]$ mythfrontend --version
Please attach all output as a file in bug reports.
MythTV Version : 0.25-6.fc16 (1a671d0)
MythTV Branch : fixes/0.25
Network Protocol : 72
Library API : 0.25.20120408-1
QT Version : 4.8.1
Options compiled in:
linux release use_hidesyms using_alsa using_jack using_oss using_pulse
using_pulseoutput using_backend using_bindings_perl using_bindings_python
using_bindings_php using_crystalhd using_dvb using_firewire using_frontend
using_hdhomerun using_ceton using_hdpvr using_iptv using_ivtv
using_joystick_menu using_libcrypto using_libdns_sd using_libfftw3
using_libxml2 using_libudf using_lirc using_mheg using_opengl_video
using_qtwebkit using_qtscript using_qtdbus using_v4l2 using_x11
using_xrandr using_xv using_bindings_perl using_bindings_python
using_bindings_php using_mythtranscode using_opengl using_vaapi using_vdpau
using_ffmpeg_threads using_live using_mheg using_libass using_libxml2
using_libudf

I'm liking things thus far!

Jerry


mtdean at thirdcontact

Jun 11, 2012, 11:39 AM

Post #66 of 67 (2420 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On 06/08/2012 04:23 PM, Jerry wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>
>> Specifically, you want to go into each of the 3 "views" available in Video
>> Library (Gallery, Browse, and List) and "Show Directory Structure" (meaning
>> the MENU should offer, "Hide Directory Structure," to allow you to change
>> the setting) and enable "Browse Library (recommended)" (meaning the MENU
>> should say, "Browse Filesystem (slow)," to allow you to change the
>> setting). Then, once you've configured all 3 views appropriately, choose
>> the one whose interface looks best to you/works best for you.
>>
>>
> I'm having difficulty seeing the fanart when I switch to "Browse Library
> (recommended)" It all disappears and reappears when I switch back to
> "Browse Filesystem (slow)". Is this expected behavior? I'm also crashing
> mythfrontend when I change this setting back and forth, but that's another
> issue.

As the behavior you're describing is /exactly/ opposite what it should
be (i.e. with "Browse Filesystem (slow)" enabled, you won't get
metadata), I think you're misinterpreting the UI.

As I tried (clumsily--because it's extremely hard to describe) to
explain in my post, above, the MENU will show the
opposite-of-currently-selected option. So when Video Library is
properly configured, the MENU should say, "Browse Filesystem (slow),"
indicating if you press that button, you will be browsing the file
system and ignoring all metadata. Similarly, you probably want the MENU
to say, "Hide Directory Structure," (meaning that you're showing the
structure and that pressing the button will hide it).

We're discussing ways of improving the UI to make this less confusing.

Mike
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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

Jun 23, 2012, 10:03 AM

Post #67 of 67 (2326 views)
Permalink
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [In reply to]

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Michael T. Dean
<mtdean [at] thirdcontact> wrote:
> On 06/08/2012 04:23 PM, Jerry wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>>
>>> Specifically, you want to go into each of the 3 "views" available in
>>> Video
>>> Library (Gallery, Browse, and List) and "Show Directory Structure"
>>> (meaning
>>> the MENU should offer, "Hide Directory Structure," to allow you to change
>>> the setting) and enable "Browse Library (recommended)" (meaning the MENU
>>> should say, "Browse Filesystem (slow)," to allow you to change the
>>> setting).  Then, once you've configured all 3 views appropriately, choose
>>> the one whose interface looks best to you/works best for you.
>>>
>>>
>> I'm having difficulty seeing the fanart when I switch to "Browse Library
>> (recommended)"  It all disappears and reappears when I switch back to
>> "Browse Filesystem (slow)".  Is this expected behavior?  I'm also crashing
>> mythfrontend when I change this setting back and forth, but that's another
>> issue.
>
>
> As the behavior you're describing is /exactly/ opposite what it should be
> (i.e. with "Browse Filesystem (slow)" enabled, you won't get metadata), I
> think you're misinterpreting the UI.
>
> As I tried (clumsily--because it's extremely hard to describe) to explain in
> my post, above, the MENU will show the opposite-of-currently-selected
> option.  So when Video Library is properly configured, the MENU should say,
> "Browse Filesystem (slow)," indicating if you press that button, you will be
> browsing the file system and ignoring all metadata.  Similarly, you probably
> want the MENU to say, "Hide Directory Structure," (meaning that you're
> showing the structure and that pressing the button will hide it).
>
> We're discussing ways of improving the UI to make this less confusing.
>
>
> Mike

Now that I've been able to properly scan my music library with
MythMusic I am beginning to play with it in earnest.
First, I can't get sound out, while sound everywhere else works. So
that's an issue.

But beyond that, I am on my fastest frontent, an Athlon X2 3200+ with
2GB of RAM, and I did some tests:
To scroll through my entire Artists list it takes 05min8.97seconds, my
thumb almost gave out a few times, but I managed.
If I just slowly scroll through the UI, be it Artist, Album, etc,
sometimes it can take upwards of 10 seconds to move to the next entry!
The Smart Playlist Editor takes roughly 3 seconds to move from field
to field. The overall UI is very slow. In the Edit Criteria window
when selecting the criteria, it almost alwaysl "freezes" and does not
move to the next criteria for anywhere from 5-10seconds. Almost as
though it's loading the entire db for that criteria option.
In the playlist editor, if I choose an Artist then Album, the tracks
There is no criteria that lets me input the filepath.
MUSIC IS SORTED BY TRACK NAME?! at least it looks to be properly
sorted in the "Current Play List View", though I don't know what it
uses for the sort criteria?
Search View seems to load the entire music library?

--
Steve
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User:Steveadeff
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions
then search the Wiki, and this list,
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/
Mailinglist etiquette - http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mailing_List_etiquette
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