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XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25

  

 
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raymond at wagnerrp

Dec 5, 2010, 3:27 PM

Post #26 of 61 (1206 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On Sunday, December 05, 2010 01:50:56 pm Newbury wrote:
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 2010-12-05, at 11:28, Raymond Wagner<raymond [at] wagnerrp> wrote:
>>> On 12/5/2010 09:33, James Courtier-Dutton wrote:
>>>> I agree that VDPAU (and similar) and OpenGL are the way forward
>>>> for HD
>>>> content, but Xv and XvMC are still perfectly good for SD content.
>>>> For example, I have a small TV in the Kitchen. There is no
>>>> sensible reason for me to purchase a HD capable STB when the TV
>>>> is only 17 inches and has no HDMI connector.
>>> It has nothing to do with the content it is usable with, and
>>> everything to do with the direction we want to take the
>>> presentation of MythTV. Xv has no OSD support to speak of. Any
>>> overlays must be rendered to the size of the video, converted to
>>> YUV, and baked into the video. XvMC has OSD support, but it is
>>> very primitive, and ends up being more limiting than Xv. The fact
>>> that XvMC has been unnecessary for any desktop processor made in
>>> the past five years, and $25 gets you a video card plenty capable
>>> of handling the OpenGL painter, has just made the decision an
>>> easier one.
>> This cuts off anyone using a laptop with an Intel video chipset. For
>> quite a while ( versions 2.5 through 2.8) XvMC was turned off. In
>> 2.9.1 it works reaonably making my 1.8Ghz X-61tablet a reasonable
>> myth platform.

The 1.8GHz Core 2 Duo in an X-61 should have no problem playing any
recorded MPEG2 content without the aid of XvMC.
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raymond at wagnerrp

Dec 5, 2010, 3:37 PM

Post #27 of 61 (1205 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On 12/5/2010 16:29, jedi wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 11:26:57AM -0800, BP wrote:
>> A cheap Atom based computer should be able to decode SD content
>> without GPU assistance. How old is your hardware in that it cannot
> Well, an Atom will certainly do well enough for MPEG2. It will manage
> to "squeak by" for DIVX. So it probably has no hope of coping with h264.
> So it's paramount that whatever acceleration features are available on the
> GPU are supported (whatever they are).

XvMC does not help DivX, XviD, or H264 decoding in any manner.
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jyavenard at gmail

Dec 5, 2010, 3:59 PM

Post #28 of 61 (1204 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
Hi

On 6 December 2010 07:50, Newbury <newbury [at] mandamus> wrote:
> This cuts off anyone using a laptop with an Intel video chipset. For quite a
> while ( versions 2.5 through 2.8) XvMC was turned off. In 2.9.1 it works
> reaonably making my 1.8Ghz X-61tablet a reasonable myth platform.
>
> I would hate to lose that. And Lenovo does seem to make laptops with nvidia
> chipsets and Lenovo is the only maker offering the trackpoint. A Venn
> diagram of nvidia and trackpoint has no intersection!

Intel has OpenGL support, so not having Xv isn't an issue..

I personally never used XvMC on any of my mythtv frontend.

Several years ago, I had a 1.8GHz P4 machine, I put a nVidia 6500 card
in there at the time this card was the recommended one for mythtv. Got
it specifically for XvMC.

Turned out to look aweful, OSD was in black&white and as the P4 would
decode mpeg2 without any problems, there was no reasons to keep trying
to use XvMC.
At the most, for 1080i mpeg2, using the kernel 2X deinterlacer, the
CPU would sit at around 80%. For SD, it would be 15-20%

If you have a processor > 500MHz, for SD content I don't see why you
would want to use XvMC.
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peloy at chapus

Dec 5, 2010, 6:33 PM

Post #29 of 61 (1201 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 11:16:32AM -0500, Raymond Wagner wrote:

> On 12/5/2010 08:52, Eloy Paris wrote:
> >- Buy a PCI card that can do VDPAU. Cons: any negative downside to using
> >a PCI card to play HD? Based on the VDPAU in the wiki it seems like it
> >works. This seems like the best option I have right now.
>
> If you're playing content usable through VDPAU, you're only going to
> be sending a few MB/s, not a problem for PCI. The other UI bits are
> not active enough to cause any problems wither. Any HD content that
> can't be played through VDPAU will likely require too much bandwidth
> to realistically be used.

Thanks for the insight.

Newegg has a NVIDA 8400-based PCI card for less than $40. That's what I
am thinking of buying. The only problem I see with this card is that it
has 256 MBytes of RAM. Would this amount of RAM be a deal breaker and
it'd be better to go with another card that has 512 MBytes of RAM?

Cheers,

Eloy Paris.-
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raymond at wagnerrp

Dec 5, 2010, 7:00 PM

Post #30 of 61 (1203 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On 12/5/2010 21:33, Eloy Paris wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 11:16:32AM -0500, Raymond Wagner wrote:
>> On 12/5/2010 08:52, Eloy Paris wrote:
>>> - Buy a PCI card that can do VDPAU. Cons: any negative downside to using
>>> a PCI card to play HD? Based on the VDPAU in the wiki it seems like it
>>> works. This seems like the best option I have right now.
>> If you're playing content usable through VDPAU, you're only going to
>> be sending a few MB/s, not a problem for PCI. The other UI bits are
>> not active enough to cause any problems wither. Any HD content that
>> can't be played through VDPAU will likely require too much bandwidth
>> to realistically be used.
> Newegg has a NVIDA 8400-based PCI card for less than $40. That's what I
> am thinking of buying. The only problem I see with this card is that it
> has 256 MBytes of RAM. Would this amount of RAM be a deal breaker and
> it'd be better to go with another card that has 512 MBytes of RAM?

VDPAU in MythTV really isn't happy with less than 512MB of memory. A
quick check of newegg means the price is bumped up to $50.

Your original $400 quote is really a bit excessive, especially for a
lowly Atom. You can build a full system with plenty of CPU power for
any software decoding needs for around $300. If you have an existing
system you can scavage, you can manage one for less than $200. I put
together an upgrade almost two years ago for $160 (AMD dual-core, nVidia
micro-atx, 2GB), that is still plenty capable of handling anything I've
thrown at it.
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nick.rout at gmail

Dec 5, 2010, 7:16 PM

Post #31 of 61 (1200 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Raymond Wagner <raymond [at] wagnerrp> wrote:
> On 12/5/2010 21:33, Eloy Paris wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 11:16:32AM -0500, Raymond Wagner wrote:
>>>
>>> On 12/5/2010 08:52, Eloy Paris wrote:
>>>>
>>>> - Buy a PCI card that can do VDPAU. Cons: any negative downside to using
>>>> a PCI card to play HD? Based on the VDPAU in the wiki it seems like it
>>>> works. This seems like the best option I have right now.
>>>
>>> If you're playing content usable through VDPAU, you're only going to
>>> be sending a few MB/s, not a problem for PCI.  The other UI bits are
>>> not active enough to cause any problems wither.  Any HD content that
>>> can't be played through VDPAU will likely require too much bandwidth
>>> to realistically be used.
>>
>> Newegg has a NVIDA 8400-based PCI card for less than $40. That's what I
>> am thinking of buying. The only problem I see with this card is that it
>> has 256 MBytes of RAM. Would this amount of RAM be a deal breaker and
>> it'd be better to go with another card that has 512 MBytes of RAM?
>
> VDPAU in MythTV really isn't happy with less than 512MB of memory.  A quick
> check of newegg means the price is bumped up to $50.
>
> Your original $400 quote is really a bit excessive, especially for a lowly
> Atom.  You can build a full system with plenty of CPU power for any software
> decoding needs for around $300.  If you have an existing system you can
> scavage, you can manage one for less than $200.  I put together an upgrade
> almost two years ago for $160 (AMD dual-core, nVidia micro-atx, 2GB), that
> is still plenty capable of handling anything I've thrown at it.

This is fine for those of you in the US.

1. You can get a revo for US$200. (albeit a refurb 1600)

2. US$200 is NZ$248 according to my bank, right now.

3. the cheapest revo i can find in NZ here right now is a 3610 for $758.

I know thats not quite apples with apples as they are different
version, but the prices here are off the richter scale.

Same goes for most IT gear, anything you can buy for US$X will be
NZ$3X, particularly small, quiet, efficient - this just seems to be a
reason to rort the average kiwi even more!

Not your fault I know, but very annoying when I see this sort of
discussion and people saying how cheap an upgrade is!


> _______________________________________________
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raymond at wagnerrp

Dec 5, 2010, 7:18 PM

Post #32 of 61 (1197 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On 12/5/2010 22:00, Raymond Wagner wrote:
> On 12/5/2010 21:33, Eloy Paris wrote:
>> On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 11:16:32AM -0500, Raymond Wagner wrote:
>>> On 12/5/2010 08:52, Eloy Paris wrote:
>>>> - Buy a PCI card that can do VDPAU. Cons: any negative downside to
>>>> using
>>>> a PCI card to play HD? Based on the VDPAU in the wiki it seems like it
>>>> works. This seems like the best option I have right now.
>>> If you're playing content usable through VDPAU, you're only going to
>>> be sending a few MB/s, not a problem for PCI. The other UI bits are
>>> not active enough to cause any problems wither. Any HD content that
>>> can't be played through VDPAU will likely require too much bandwidth
>>> to realistically be used.
>> Newegg has a NVIDA 8400-based PCI card for less than $40. That's what I
>> am thinking of buying. The only problem I see with this card is that it
>> has 256 MBytes of RAM. Would this amount of RAM be a deal breaker and
>> it'd be better to go with another card that has 512 MBytes of RAM?
> Your original $400 quote is really a bit excessive, especially for a
> lowly Atom. You can build a full system with plenty of CPU power for
> any software decoding needs for around $300. If you have an existing
> system you can scavage, you can manage one for less than $200. I put
> together an upgrade almost two years ago for $160 (AMD dual-core,
> nVidia micro-atx, 2GB), that is still plenty capable of handling
> anything I've thrown at it.

A quick example, try...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157187
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146118
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103903

for $147

Or use...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103872

for a bit more power at $162


If you prefer Intel, try...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500019
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146118
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116367

for $196

Or...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157190
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145252
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115221

for $209
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raymond at wagnerrp

Dec 5, 2010, 7:26 PM

Post #33 of 61 (1196 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On 12/5/2010 22:16, Nick Rout wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Raymond Wagner<raymond [at] wagnerrp> wrote:
>> On 12/5/2010 21:33, Eloy Paris wrote:
>>> On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 11:16:32AM -0500, Raymond Wagner wrote:
>>>> On 12/5/2010 08:52, Eloy Paris wrote:
>>>>> - Buy a PCI card that can do VDPAU. Cons: any negative downside to using
>>>>> a PCI card to play HD? Based on the VDPAU in the wiki it seems like it
>>>>> works. This seems like the best option I have right now.
>>>> If you're playing content usable through VDPAU, you're only going to
>>>> be sending a few MB/s, not a problem for PCI. The other UI bits are
>>>> not active enough to cause any problems wither. Any HD content that
>>>> can't be played through VDPAU will likely require too much bandwidth
>>>> to realistically be used.
>>> Newegg has a NVIDA 8400-based PCI card for less than $40. That's what I
>>> am thinking of buying. The only problem I see with this card is that it
>>> has 256 MBytes of RAM. Would this amount of RAM be a deal breaker and
>>> it'd be better to go with another card that has 512 MBytes of RAM?
>> VDPAU in MythTV really isn't happy with less than 512MB of memory. A quick
>> check of newegg means the price is bumped up to $50.
>>
>> Your original $400 quote is really a bit excessive, especially for a lowly
>> Atom. You can build a full system with plenty of CPU power for any software
>> decoding needs for around $300. If you have an existing system you can
>> scavage, you can manage one for less than $200. I put together an upgrade
>> almost two years ago for $160 (AMD dual-core, nVidia micro-atx, 2GB), that
>> is still plenty capable of handling anything I've thrown at it.
> This is fine for those of you in the US.
>
> 1. You can get a revo for US$200. (albeit a refurb 1600)
>
> 2. US$200 is NZ$248 according to my bank, right now.
>
> 3. the cheapest revo i can find in NZ here right now is a 3610 for $758.
>
> I know thats not quite apples with apples as they are different
> version, but the prices here are off the richter scale.
>
> Same goes for most IT gear, anything you can buy for US$X will be
> NZ$3X, particularly small, quiet, efficient - this just seems to be a
> reason to rort the average kiwi even more!
>
> Not your fault I know, but very annoying when I see this sort of
> discussion and people saying how cheap an upgrade is!

Fair enough, but in this case, his email server maps back to a cable
internet account in North Carolina. Plus, he referenced Newegg
himself... :P
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mythtv at theseekerr

Dec 6, 2010, 1:37 AM

Post #34 of 61 (1170 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Raymond Wagner <raymond [at] wagnerrp> wrote:
>> On 12/5/2010 21:33, Eloy Paris wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 11:16:32AM -0500, Raymond Wagner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 12/5/2010 08:52, Eloy Paris wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Buy a PCI card that can do VDPAU. Cons: any negative downside to using
>>>>> a PCI card to play HD? Based on the VDPAU in the wiki it seems like it
>>>>> works. This seems like the best option I have right now.
>>>>
>>>> If you're playing content usable through VDPAU, you're only going to
>>>> be sending a few MB/s, not a problem for PCI.  The other UI bits are
>>>> not active enough to cause any problems wither.  Any HD content that
>>>> can't be played through VDPAU will likely require too much bandwidth
>>>> to realistically be used.
>>>
>>> Newegg has a NVIDA 8400-based PCI card for less than $40. That's what I
>>> am thinking of buying. The only problem I see with this card is that it
>>> has 256 MBytes of RAM. Would this amount of RAM be a deal breaker and
>>> it'd be better to go with another card that has 512 MBytes of RAM?
>>
>> VDPAU in MythTV really isn't happy with less than 512MB of memory.  A quick
>> check of newegg means the price is bumped up to $50.
>>
>> Your original $400 quote is really a bit excessive, especially for a lowly
>> Atom.  You can build a full system with plenty of CPU power for any software
>> decoding needs for around $300.  If you have an existing system you can
>> scavage, you can manage one for less than $200.  I put together an upgrade
>> almost two years ago for $160 (AMD dual-core, nVidia micro-atx, 2GB), that
>> is still plenty capable of handling anything I've thrown at it.
>
> This is fine for those of you in the US.
>
> 1. You can get a revo for US$200. (albeit a refurb 1600)
>
> 2. US$200 is NZ$248 according to my bank, right now.
>
> 3. the cheapest revo i can find in NZ here right now is a 3610 for $758.
>
> I know thats not quite apples with apples as they are different
> version, but the prices here are off the richter scale.
>
> Same goes for most IT gear, anything you can buy for US$X will be
> NZ$3X, particularly small, quiet, efficient - this just seems to be a
> reason to rort the average kiwi even more!
>
> Not your fault I know, but very annoying when I see this sort of
> discussion and people saying how cheap an upgrade is!

ebay.co.nz shows Revo's available for $335NZD Buy It Now with free
shipping.....I'm sure you'd like to support your fellow Kiwi's, but
buying from Hong Kong will certainly save a few bob.

- Chris
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james.dutton at gmail

Dec 6, 2010, 4:11 AM

Post #35 of 61 (1166 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On 5 December 2010 19:43, Brian Wood <beww [at] beww> wrote:
> On Sunday, December 05, 2010 12:26:57 pm BP wrote:
>
>> A cheap Atom based computer should be able to decode SD content
>> without GPU assistance.  How old is your hardware in that it cannot
>> decode SD content with the CPU?  Even seven years ago when I was
>> running .11 I didn't require XvMC for any SD content.  I think I was
>> using an Athlon XP 2500 at that time.
>
> As a datapoint, Dell stopped putting hardware mpeg decoders in their
> DVD-equipped laptops at the time their CPUs hit 500Mhz.
>
> Of course they were using highly-optimized code for the DVD player, so
> it might be better to say that 750 Mhz. is required to decode SD mpeg2
> in software. Myth does more than just play the file, so it would need a
> little more than just decoding would require.
>

The mpeg2 decode on the CPU is not the issue with old PCs.
The problem area is the transfer of data from the CPU to the graphics card.
XV makes considerable savings in this area over plain RGB putimage.
XvMC makes even further savings by instead just sending the macro
blocks to the video card.

I think that another approach might be to have myth 0.24 in a
maintenance mode, whereby it can always talk to the latest
myth-backend database.
So, old PCs can continue to use 0.24 mythfrontend.
Is this a workable way forward?
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kkuphal at gmail

Dec 6, 2010, 6:57 AM

Post #36 of 61 (1162 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 6:11 AM, James Courtier-Dutton <
james.dutton [at] gmail> wrote:

> On 5 December 2010 19:43, Brian Wood <beww [at] beww> wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 05, 2010 12:26:57 pm BP wrote:
> >
> >> A cheap Atom based computer should be able to decode SD content
> >> without GPU assistance. How old is your hardware in that it cannot
> >> decode SD content with the CPU? Even seven years ago when I was
> >> running .11 I didn't require XvMC for any SD content. I think I was
> >> using an Athlon XP 2500 at that time.
> >
> > As a datapoint, Dell stopped putting hardware mpeg decoders in their
> > DVD-equipped laptops at the time their CPUs hit 500Mhz.
> >
> > Of course they were using highly-optimized code for the DVD player, so
> > it might be better to say that 750 Mhz. is required to decode SD mpeg2
> > in software. Myth does more than just play the file, so it would need a
> > little more than just decoding would require.
> >
>
> The mpeg2 decode on the CPU is not the issue with old PCs.
> The problem area is the transfer of data from the CPU to the graphics card.
> XV makes considerable savings in this area over plain RGB putimage.
> XvMC makes even further savings by instead just sending the macro
> blocks to the video card.
>
> I think that another approach might be to have myth 0.24 in a
> maintenance mode, whereby it can always talk to the latest
> myth-backend database.
> So, old PCs can continue to use 0.24 mythfrontend.
> Is this a workable way forward?
>

Being open source, anyone is free to implement this very type of features
and distribute it to all those that desire it. Don't expect it to be
supported by the main MythTV project though. It is moving forward. I
personally, don't understand the arguing. I have a master backend that can
only play back HD content using XvMC (AGP card, Athlon 1800 processor). I
understand that with 0.25, I can no longer use it as an occasional frontend
for HD content. Fine, no big deal. I have a number of workarounds (many
posted here) at my disposal. It may be an inconvenience but I've gotten
*years* of good use out of the machine and as a backend, it will continue to
get years more I imagine. Time to move on and if you can't stay with the
cutting edge, you're welcome to continue running the version you have
forever.

Kevin

Kevin


peloy at chapus

Dec 6, 2010, 8:01 AM

Post #37 of 61 (1161 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 10:26:09PM -0500, Raymond Wagner wrote:

[...]

> >>>Newegg has a NVIDA 8400-based PCI card for less than $40. That's
> >>>what I am thinking of buying. The only problem I see with this card
> >>>is that it has 256 MBytes of RAM. Would this amount of RAM be a
> >>>deal breaker and it'd be better to go with another card that has
> >>>512 MBytes of RAM?

[...]

> >>Your original $400 quote is really a bit excessive, especially for a lowly
> >>Atom. You can build a full system with plenty of CPU power for any software
> >>decoding needs for around $300. If you have an existing system you can
> >>scavage, you can manage one for less than $200. I put together an upgrade
> >>almost two years ago for $160 (AMD dual-core, nVidia micro-atx, 2GB), that
> >>is still plenty capable of handling anything I've thrown at it.
> >This is fine for those of you in the US.
> >
> >1. You can get a revo for US$200. (albeit a refurb 1600)
> >
> >2. US$200 is NZ$248 according to my bank, right now.
> >
> >3. the cheapest revo i can find in NZ here right now is a 3610 for $758.
> >
> >I know thats not quite apples with apples as they are different
> >version, but the prices here are off the richter scale.
> >
> >Same goes for most IT gear, anything you can buy for US$X will be
> >NZ$3X, particularly small, quiet, efficient - this just seems to be a
> >reason to rort the average kiwi even more!
> >
> >Not your fault I know, but very annoying when I see this sort of
> >discussion and people saying how cheap an upgrade is!
>
> Fair enough, but in this case, his email server maps back to a cable
> internet account in North Carolina. Plus, he referenced Newegg
> himself... :P

Well, I mentioned that I saw a VDPAU-capable card in newegg for less
that $40 (I think it was $35). I'm still scratching my head regarding
the Revo comments. Perhaps the original $400 comment (if there ever was
one) about some Atom-powered machine was made by someone else? Or my $40
comment on a video card ended up being interpreted as a $400 comment on
an actual machine? :-)

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. Now I know I should be shooting for a
512 MByte VDPAU capable card, and have some good insight into a new
machine, if I decide to go that route ;-)

Cheers,

Eloy Paris.-
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jfwd at phlobus

Dec 6, 2010, 8:39 AM

Post #38 of 61 (1161 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Kevin Kuphal <kkuphal [at] gmail> wrote:
> get years more I imagine.  Time to move on and if you can't stay with the
> cutting edge, you're welcome to continue running the version you have
> forever.

Just wanted to say I'm glad someone pointed this out -- after reading
this thread I'm surprised to see how many people read this
announcement as "now you have to upgrade your hardware". If your 0.24
based system is stable and runs on your old hardware, and you object
to buying new hardware for whatever reason (budget, environment,
time), the solution is very easy -- keep what you have! It not like a
bottle of milk, it has no expiration date.

So simple, yet so often overlooked....
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beww at beww

Dec 6, 2010, 8:44 AM

Post #39 of 61 (1159 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On Monday, December 06, 2010 09:39:08 am Joe wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Kevin Kuphal <kkuphal [at] gmail>
wrote:
> > get years more I imagine. Time to move on and if you can't stay
> > with the cutting edge, you're welcome to continue running the
> > version you have forever.
>
> Just wanted to say I'm glad someone pointed this out -- after reading
> this thread I'm surprised to see how many people read this
> announcement as "now you have to upgrade your hardware". If your
> 0.24 based system is stable and runs on your old hardware, and you
> object to buying new hardware for whatever reason (budget,
> environment, time), the solution is very easy -- keep what you have!
> It not like a bottle of milk, it has no expiration date.
>
> So simple, yet so often overlooked....

Quite correct. I have an old SD system running Mythdora 5 with a 5200
video card. It works great, even today. I gave it to someone as an
"appliance", it still outperforms any cable company box or Tivo, and I
expect it will continue to do so for many years.

There's nothing as far as hardware that can't be easily replaced, and
the software is stable as a rock. This system once rolled up 2 years of
uptime with no problems.

Upgrading a system that meets your needs is silly. It's the marketing
types who foster this "I must upgrade" mode of thinking. Remember that
"old" means "well tested".

Of course the industry (in general, not Myth) tries its best to force
you to upgrade, it makes no money if you don't.

Planned obsolescence is an old trick.


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stanlist at cox

Dec 6, 2010, 9:13 AM

Post #40 of 61 (1163 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Raymond Wagner <raymond [at] wagnerrp>
wrote:
>> On 12/5/2010 21:33, Eloy Paris wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 11:16:32AM -0500, Raymond Wagner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 12/5/2010 08:52, Eloy Paris wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Buy a PCI card that can do VDPAU. Cons: any negative downside to
>>>>> using a PCI card to play HD? Based on the VDPAU in the wiki it
>>>>> seems like it works. This seems like the best option I have right now.
>>>>
>>>> If you're playing content usable through VDPAU, you're only going
>>>> to be sending a few MB/s, not a problem for PCI. The other UI bits
>>>> are not active enough to cause any problems wither. Any HD content
>>>> that can't be played through VDPAU will likely require too much
>>>> bandwidth to realistically be used.
>>>
>>> Newegg has a NVIDA 8400-based PCI card for less than $40. That's
>>> what I am thinking of buying. The only problem I see with this card
>>> is that it has 256 MBytes of RAM. Would this amount of RAM be a deal
>>> breaker and it'd be better to go with another card that has 512 MBytes
of RAM?
>>
>> VDPAU in MythTV really isn't happy with less than 512MB of memory. A
>> quick check of newegg means the price is bumped up to $50.
>>

I have an Intel D945PSN mobo (dual 2.8 GHz CPU) that was running a now
broken Sapphire ATI 800GT graphics card. The video buss is PCI Express X16.
I'm not sure if that PCI Express is version 1.0 or 1.1.

I'm looking to replace the graphics card, and $50 is within budget. Are you
guys recommending nVideo VDPAU for MythTV as well as windows Netflix
streaming? If so, which 8400 based 512 MB card are you talking about -- I'm
interested.

BTW, it looks like all PCI Express X16 video cards sold today are PCI
Express version 2.0. Is there an issue running these on a PCI Express
version 1.0 or 1.1 mobo?

Thanks,
Stan

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raymond at wagnerrp

Dec 6, 2010, 9:20 AM

Post #41 of 61 (1165 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On 12/6/2010 12:13, stan wrote:
> Are you guys recommending nVideo VDPAU for MythTV as well as windows Netflix
> streaming?

Neither MythTV, nor Linux in general, can do Netflix streaming. Netflix
streaming requires capabilities in Silverlight not available in Moonlight.

> BTW, it looks like all PCI Express X16 video cards sold today are PCI
> Express version 2.0. Is there an issue running these on a PCI Express
> version 1.0 or 1.1 mobo?

Shouldnt be a problem.
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peloy at chapus

Dec 6, 2010, 10:04 AM

Post #42 of 61 (1159 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
Hi Stan,

On Mon, Dec 06, 2010 at 10:13:56AM -0700, stan wrote:

> I have an Intel D945PSN mobo (dual 2.8 GHz CPU) that was running a now
> broken Sapphire ATI 800GT graphics card. The video buss is PCI Express X16.
> I'm not sure if that PCI Express is version 1.0 or 1.1.
>
> I'm looking to replace the graphics card, and $50 is within budget. Are you
> guys recommending nVideo VDPAU for MythTV as well as windows Netflix
> streaming? If so, which 8400 based 512 MB card are you talking about -- I'm
> interested.

To see what's available (specifically at newegg), you can start here:

http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=48&name=Desktop-Graphics-Video-Cards

Choose on the left your options, e.g. bus type and NVIDIA as the chipset
manufacturer, and you'll be able to eliminate the cards you don't want.

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU has some cards some users have reported
as working.

Cheers,

Eloy Paris.-

>
> BTW, it looks like all PCI Express X16 video cards sold today are PCI
> Express version 2.0. Is there an issue running these on a PCI Express
> version 1.0 or 1.1 mobo?
>
> Thanks,
> Stan
>
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jan.ceuleers at computer

Dec 6, 2010, 11:42 AM

Post #43 of 61 (1156 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On 06/12/10 04:16, Nick Rout wrote:
> Not your fault I know, but very annoying when I see this sort of
> discussion and people saying how cheap an upgrade is!

Not to mention the fact that just throwing away hardware because the
newfanglest software can't be bothered to support it anymore isn't
exactly environmentally sound...
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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

Dec 6, 2010, 11:49 AM

Post #44 of 61 (1153 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Jan Ceuleers <jan.ceuleers [at] computer> wrote:
> On 06/12/10 04:16, Nick Rout wrote:
>>
>> Not your fault I know, but very annoying when I see this sort of
>> discussion and people saying how cheap an upgrade is!
>
> Not to mention the fact that just throwing away hardware because the
> newfanglest software can't be bothered to support it anymore isn't exactly
> environmentally sound...

Donate it to your local school or an inner city organization.


--
Steve
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User:Steveadeff
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions
then search the Wiki, and this list,
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/
Mailinglist etiquette -
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nick.rout at gmail

Dec 6, 2010, 12:15 PM

Post #45 of 61 (1157 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 8:49 AM, Steven Adeff <adeffs.mythtv [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Jan Ceuleers <jan.ceuleers [at] computer> wrote:
>> On 06/12/10 04:16, Nick Rout wrote:
>>>
>>> Not your fault I know, but very annoying when I see this sort of
>>> discussion and people saying how cheap an upgrade is!
>>
>> Not to mention the fact that just throwing away hardware because the
>> newfanglest software can't be bothered to support it anymore isn't exactly
>> environmentally sound...
>
> Donate it to your local school or an inner city organization.


The average school actually doesn't want OLD hardware in my
experience. they want modern hardware, with a warranty and/or a
maintenace contract supported by their IT people.
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raymond at wagnerrp

Dec 6, 2010, 12:21 PM

Post #46 of 61 (1147 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On 12/6/2010 14:42, Jan Ceuleers wrote:
> On 06/12/10 04:16, Nick Rout wrote:
>> Not your fault I know, but very annoying when I see this sort of
>> discussion and people saying how cheap an upgrade is!
> Not to mention the fact that just throwing away hardware because the
> newfanglest software can't be bothered to support it anymore isn't
> exactly environmentally sound...

For what its worth, you're throwing away your old inefficient Pentium
4s, Athlons, and Athlon XPs for machines that idle at well under half
the power consumption. It has been mentioned several times in this
list, but Toms Hardware has an article detailing a high end i5, fully
capable of decoding any video you may record or purchase for MythTV in
software without any acceleration, that idles for under 25W. For people
who leave their machines on all the time, you're _helping_ the environment.
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raymond at wagnerrp

Dec 6, 2010, 12:21 PM

Post #47 of 61 (1145 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On 12/6/2010 15:15, Nick Rout wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 8:49 AM, Steven Adeff<adeffs.mythtv [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Jan Ceuleers<jan.ceuleers [at] computer> wrote:
>>> On 06/12/10 04:16, Nick Rout wrote:
>>>> Not your fault I know, but very annoying when I see this sort of
>>>> discussion and people saying how cheap an upgrade is!
>>> Not to mention the fact that just throwing away hardware because the
>>> newfanglest software can't be bothered to support it anymore isn't exactly
>>> environmentally sound...
>> Donate it to your local school or an inner city organization.
> The average school actually doesn't want OLD hardware in my
> experience. they want modern hardware, with a warranty and/or a
> maintenace contract supported by their IT people.

My local grade school actually is actively seeking such old hardware,
although they're generally going for 3yr old corporate PCs and servers,
rather than our 6+yr old cast offs. There are plenty of other
organizations which will take them. Off hand, I know of three companies
in the local area that will take old machines for free, and either
repair/refurb them for donation, savage them for spare parts, or send
them off to the proper recycling company.
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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

Dec 6, 2010, 12:21 PM

Post #48 of 61 (1145 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 8:49 AM, Steven Adeff <adeffs.mythtv [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Jan Ceuleers <jan.ceuleers [at] computer> wrote:
>>> On 06/12/10 04:16, Nick Rout wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Not your fault I know, but very annoying when I see this sort of
>>>> discussion and people saying how cheap an upgrade is!
>>>
>>> Not to mention the fact that just throwing away hardware because the
>>> newfanglest software can't be bothered to support it anymore isn't exactly
>>> environmentally sound...
>>
>> Donate it to your local school or an inner city organization.
>
>
> The average school actually doesn't want OLD hardware in my
> experience. they want modern hardware, with a warranty and/or a
> maintenace contract supported by their IT people.

shame.
donate it to the local college ECSE department?

in the end, you can always take it to an electronics recycler. Most
towns collect this type of thing.

--
Steve
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User:Steveadeff
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions
then search the Wiki, and this list,
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/
Mailinglist etiquette -
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richard.e.morton at gmail

Dec 6, 2010, 12:22 PM

Post #49 of 61 (1143 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
Agreed. It is not environmentally sound. But if your hardware doesnt
support the new version & functionality there is no-one forcing you to
upgrade. If .24 works fine for you dont upgrade until your natural
replacement cycle obsoletes the hardware.

I have never been very satisfied with my Via SP13000 with Myth and the
purchase of an ION system was money well spent.
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nick.rout at gmail

Dec 6, 2010, 12:26 PM

Post #50 of 61 (1145 views)
Permalink
Re: XvMC and libmpeg2 to be dropped in 0.25 [In reply to]
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Steven Adeff <adeffs.mythtv [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 8:49 AM, Steven Adeff <adeffs.mythtv [at] gmail> wrote:
>>> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Jan Ceuleers <jan.ceuleers [at] computer> wrote:
>>>> On 06/12/10 04:16, Nick Rout wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Not your fault I know, but very annoying when I see this sort of
>>>>> discussion and people saying how cheap an upgrade is!
>>>>
>>>> Not to mention the fact that just throwing away hardware because the
>>>> newfanglest software can't be bothered to support it anymore isn't exactly
>>>> environmentally sound...
>>>
>>> Donate it to your local school or an inner city organization.
>>
>>
>> The average school actually doesn't want OLD hardware in my
>> experience. they want modern hardware, with a warranty and/or a
>> maintenace contract supported by their IT people.
>
> shame.

very much so, but we know kids are possibly the most intensive users
of cpu known to man. Everything they do has a multimedia component,
even the simplest maths exercise web pages are full of flash etc etc.

> donate it to the local college ECSE department?
>
> in the end, you can always take it to an electronics recycler. Most
> towns collect this type of thing.

yep. of course much of it will still work as a file or print server too.
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