Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

[RFC] Proposed settings rework

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nick.rout at gmail

Nov 3, 2009, 5:01 PM

Post #26 of 140 (2218 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Michael T. Dean <mtdean [at] thirdcontact> wrote:
> On 11/03/2009 07:27 PM, Rod Smith wrote:
>> Nick Rout wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> (2) make the settings more accessible. From each screen/plugin add a
>>> context menu button to go straight to the config options for that
>>> screen. (presently its escape back to main menu, forward through
>>> several setup menus, make the changes then escape back out to main
>>> menu and all the way back to your screen. My suggestion is not only
>>> more user friendly in terms of button presses, but may save those
>>> endless posts asking "where is the settings option for foobar" - the
>>> answer will become "from the foobar screen hit [info] and choose
>>> [settings]"
>>>
>>
>> This is an excellent suggestion. I've wasted more time than I care to
>> contemplate moving back and forth between the recordings list and the
>> plaback settings options pages when trying to fine-tune my playback
>> settings.
>
> Agreed, and as Robert mentioned, this is an eventual goal--but one made much
> easier to accomplish once we get rid of some of the cruft. (After all,
> would you really want a 12-screen "context settings" for TV Playback?)

The other thing I forgot to mention about my suggestion was that when
you exit the context-settings you should go back to where you were,
rather than just back up the menu hierarchy. That would require some
logic when exiting a settings screen like:

"IF I got here from a context-sensitive menu, go back the where I was,
ELSE go back up the menu structure"
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robert.mcnamara at gmail

Nov 3, 2009, 5:04 PM

Post #27 of 140 (2221 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout [at] gmail> wrote:

>
> The other thing I forgot to mention about my suggestion was that when
> you exit the context-settings you should go back to where you were,
> rather than just back up the menu hierarchy. That would require some
> logic when exiting a settings screen like:
>
> "IF I got here from a context-sensitive menu, go back the where I was,
> ELSE go back up the menu structure"

Nah, this part is easy, and doesn't require any extra code at all, you
just create a new object of whatever settings screen, which gets
opened over whatever screen you were in before.

Robert
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robert.mcnamara at gmail

Nov 3, 2009, 5:05 PM

Post #28 of 140 (2220 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Robert McNamara
<robert.mcnamara [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout [at] gmail> wrote:
>
>>
>> The other thing I forgot to mention about my suggestion was that when
>> you exit the context-settings you should go back to where you were,
>> rather than just back up the menu hierarchy. That would require some
>> logic when exiting a settings screen like:
>>
>> "IF I got here from a context-sensitive menu, go back the where I was,
>> ELSE go back up the menu structure"
>
>
> Nah, this part is easy, and doesn't require any extra code at all, you
> just create a new object of whatever settings screen, which gets
> opened over whatever screen you were in before.
>
> Robert
>

Easy in MythUI, I rush to add.

Robert
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kbass at kenbass

Nov 3, 2009, 5:18 PM

Post #29 of 140 (2214 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

I think your list is pretty comprehensive and makes a lot of sense
towards better usability.

The only one I disagree with is:

-Playback-
Alternate clear and save bookmark (true)
Clear bookmark on playback (true) (false once we have multiple bookmark support)

I would want the clear bookmark on playback to be false. That is how I
save my position. Either by setting a bookmark explicity or being
prompted on exit to save a bookmark. Clearing it on playback would
defeat the feature. The clear option, if left as false, could even be
deleted. If the option does not exist, the workaround is to enter
playback, clear the mark, exit playback, enter playback. That would
clear the condition for the rare case that someone set a bookmark
accidentally.
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list-mythtv at bluecamel

Nov 3, 2009, 9:38 PM

Post #30 of 140 (2205 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

On Nov 3, 2009, at 4:07 PM, Robert McNamara wrote:
>
> TV SETTINGS
>
> Delete Outright:
>
> - Program Guide-
> Display Genre Colors (theme controlled)
> Display Channel Icons (theme controlled)
> -Playback-
> Use video as timebase (causes more damage than help)
> Show group summary (no longer used)
> Display live preview of recordings (will be theme controlled)
> Extra audio buffering (always true)

I found tonight on my ASRock 330 ION running 0.21-fixes (JYA pkgs) on
Ubuntu 9.04 I needed to enable the Extra audio buffering. If I didn't
I would get sound breakup. The way I read the suggestion here is that
the setting gets removed and changed from the 0.21-fixes default of
FALSE to TRUE. Is that correct? If so, I would support that based on
my experience.

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gaberubin at gmail

Nov 3, 2009, 9:52 PM

Post #31 of 140 (2211 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Robert McNamara
<robert.mcnamara [at] gmail> wrote:
> GENERAL
>
> Delete outright:
>
> Aggressive Sound card Buffering (always false, we will fix any
> playback issues that occur without it)
>
>
I recently had to turn this on to not have stuttering with some of my
firewire captured recordings (specifically with ESPN, but not other
channels). Your comment says that it will fix any playback issues,
but I am just concerned that this will cause stuttering of my audio
again. I am using an Athlon XP 3100, and admittedly pushing it to its
limits, but don't want to replace the system at this time.

>
> APPEARANCE
>
> Delete outright:
>
> All GUI offset/width spinboxes (respect screen wizard and -geometry
> command line)

I have never really gotten the screen wizard to work correctly for me,
so I rely on the GUI offset/width spinboxes for proper display,
otherwise, I can't see some of the text on the screen. Would the
-geometry command line work here? If so, is it possible to maybe add
a config option to pass certain arguments on the command line when
myth starts-up (similar to the option to pass command line options to
mythfilldatabase)? I know this seems to go against good UI design and
I could probably just add this command line option in my start-up
scripts, but I start-up myth several different ways and would have to
adjust for each of those.
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jyavenard at gmail

Nov 3, 2009, 11:21 PM

Post #32 of 140 (2205 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

2009/11/4 Scott <list-mythtv [at] bluecamel>:

> I found tonight on my ASRock 330 ION running 0.21-fixes (JYA pkgs) on Ubuntu
> 9.04 I needed to enable the Extra audio buffering. If I didn't I would get
> sound breakup. The way I read the suggestion here is that the setting gets
> removed and changed from the 0.21-fixes default of FALSE to TRUE. Is that
> correct? If so, I would support that based on my experience.

you must not be running a very recent version nor use VDPAU.

When using VDPAU, extra audio buffering is automatically active on
both trunk , 0-22 and 0.21 with the VDPAU backport.
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jyavenard at gmail

Nov 3, 2009, 11:22 PM

Post #33 of 140 (2203 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

Hi

2009/11/4 Gabe Rubin <gaberubin [at] gmail>:
> I recently had to turn this on to not have stuttering with some of my
> firewire captured recordings (specifically with ESPN, but not other
> channels). Your comment says that it will fix any playback issues,
> but I am just concerned that this will cause stuttering of my audio
> again. I am using an Athlon XP 3100, and admittedly pushing it to its
> limits, but don't want to replace the system at this time.

I have reworked the audio settings in 0.23/trunk

I had removed the "aggressive audio buffer" settings. Unfortunately I
had to put it back as for some having that option disabled (the
default) breaks their playback
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list-mythtv at bluecamel

Nov 3, 2009, 11:42 PM

Post #34 of 140 (2216 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

On Nov 4, 2009, at 2:21 AM, Jean-Yves Avenard wrote:

> 2009/11/4 Scott <list-mythtv [at] bluecamel>:
>
>> I found tonight on my ASRock 330 ION running 0.21-fixes (JYA pkgs)
>> on Ubuntu
>> 9.04 I needed to enable the Extra audio buffering. If I didn't I
>> would get
>> sound breakup. The way I read the suggestion here is that the
>> setting gets
>> removed and changed from the 0.21-fixes default of FALSE to TRUE.
>> Is that
>> correct? If so, I would support that based on my experience.
>
> you must not be running a very recent version nor use VDPAU.
>
> When using VDPAU, extra audio buffering is automatically active on
> both trunk , 0-22 and 0.21 with the VDPAU backport.

It was a frontend config on the ASRock loaded today using your 0.21
fixes repo. Could it be that the setting was disabled on the frontend
becuase it wasn't enabled on the backend either?

--
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pdavila at thelinuxlink

Nov 4, 2009, 12:25 AM

Post #35 of 140 (2110 views)
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[RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

I would be happy if "skip commercials automatically" was checked by default.

Pat

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pdavila at thelinuxlink

Nov 4, 2009, 12:41 AM

Post #36 of 140 (2113 views)
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[RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

> I wrote most of the commercial flagging code and I don't even use
> Auto-skip, so I would not want this option turned on by default.
> I don't use 'notify' mode either. Auto-skip ON should be a
> conscious decision by the user if the decide that the commercial
> flagging works well enough on their recordings to allow it to auto-skip
> during playback. Even in places where the flagger does work well, it
> still may not work well on some channels, so enabling auto-skip by
> default across the board should be a user decision based on the
> channels they record from.

Chris,
Thank you for your hard work on commercial flagging. For me automatic
commercial skipping is one of the features that raises MythTV head and
shoulders above other PVR apps/products. It's so simple but makes a huge
impact on the end user experience. For me it's Myth's #1 feature.

Pat

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jyavenard at gmail

Nov 4, 2009, 1:08 AM

Post #37 of 140 (2199 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

Hi

2009/11/4 Scott <list-mythtv [at] bluecamel>:
> It was a frontend config on the ASRock loaded today using your 0.21 fixes
> repo. Could it be that the setting was disabled on the frontend becuase it
> wasn't enabled on the backend either?

No, this is a frontend only.

What SVN revision are you using ?

You should be seeing something like this in the log (with -v playback):
"Forcing decode extra audio option on. XvMC/VDPAU playback requires it."

When using VDPAU ; with a recent VDPAU patch (that is around 6 months
old) ; the decode extra audio is irrelevant as it is automatically be
activated...

So if you have to check "decode extra audio" to prevent playback
issues it means one of two things:
1- You're not using VDPAU
2- You're using an old (e.g. really old) version of the VDPAU patches.
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janne-mythtv at grunau

Nov 4, 2009, 1:27 AM

Post #38 of 140 (2201 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 01:25:29PM -0800, Robert McNamara wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Richard Morton
> <richard.e.morton [at] gmail> wrote:
> >
> >> Maximum commercial skip (3600, the default)
> > We tend to have less frequent longer advert breaks so a default of 5
> > minutes for max advert skip tends to be too short, however 6 minutes
> > is nearly always adequate in my experience.
>
> Yeah, six seems enough, and a couple 30 second skips after that in the
> rare instances it would not be.

depends on the country, commercial breaks longer than 10 minutes are not
rare in germany and 6 minutes is more like the minimum commercial break
length during primetime.

Janne
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jyavenard at gmail

Nov 4, 2009, 1:43 AM

Post #39 of 140 (2202 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

Hi

2009/11/4 Janne Grunau <janne-mythtv [at] grunau>:
> depends on the country, commercial breaks longer than 10 minutes are not
> rare in germany and 6 minutes is more like the minimum commercial break
> length during primetime.

Seems to happen in countries where the only allow one commercial break
during a movie ...
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janne-mythtv at grunau

Nov 4, 2009, 1:47 AM

Post #40 of 140 (2201 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 07:49:03PM -0500, Michael T. Dean wrote:
> On 11/03/2009 07:27 PM, Rod Smith wrote:
> > On Tuesday 03 November 2009 04:07:22 pm Robert McNamara wrote:
>
> >> Display live preview of recordings (will be theme controlled)
> >>
> > This is another item that really does vary a lot from one installation to
> > another. I found the previews distracting, and worse, they slowed things down
> > enough that I didn't like them. (They made the UI sluggish.) This performance
> > degradation is likely to be worse on systems with weaker CPUs, so it's
> > perfectly reasonable for a person to want to disable live previews in favor
> > of static or no previews.
> >
>
> sed -i -e '/<livepreview/d' CPUHungryTheme/*.xml
>
> (making up tag names, but you get the point--just edit the theme if you
> must use a theme whose author likes live preview, but you don't want it)

I disagree. I don't think this is something a themer should decide.
The difference in the visual appearance is imho insignificant. So it's
perfectly fine to have a setting for this because the user finds the
live-previews distracting, makes the ui sluggish, kills the climate, ...
or in the opposite case wants to delete a recoring beacause $PERSON
appears in the first second, ...

Janne
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janne-mythtv at grunau

Nov 4, 2009, 2:09 AM

Post #41 of 140 (2201 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 01:07:22PM -0800, Robert McNamara wrote:

thanks Robert, I generally agree with the deletion/sensible defaults and
have only a couple of notes.

> Merge Guide Language Prefs and UI Language Prefs

The guide languages should be moved to mythtv-setup. AFAIK they are used
only in in the EIT scanner. I'm unsure whether I should add them to the
videosource or add yet another page to mythtv-setup's general section.

> Show group summary (no longer used)

still used and should default to yes. IIRC we don't display anything
disabled.

> What to call unknown programs (Unknown)
> What category to give unknown programs (Unknown)

no problem as long as the strings are translated

> Seek to exact frame (true)

I would say should depend on the skip/jump amount and keyframe distance.
I can't image that anybody would care for 1/2 second of precision of a 5
minute jump.

> Automatically lookup CDs (true, but fail gracefully)

privacy issue, no communication with remote hosts without users consent

> Enable CD Writing (true)

maybe enable if a writer is detected

Janne
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jan at horde

Nov 4, 2009, 3:12 AM

Post #42 of 140 (2179 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

Zitat von Robert McNamara <robert.mcnamara [at] gmail>:

> Please feel free to peruse and comment on the list. Sometimes I note

Just a short note that I welcome this initiative a lot. I have read
through the complete list of proposed changes, and even though I use 2
or 3 of those settings, I think you have chosen the defaults and the
obsolete settings very carefully and sensible. +1 for the complete list.

Jan.

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jan at horde

Nov 4, 2009, 3:14 AM

Post #43 of 140 (2180 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

Zitat von Robert McNamara <robert.mcnamara [at] gmail>:

>>> Maximum commercial skip (3600, the default)
>> We tend to have less frequent longer advert breaks so a default of 5
>> minutes for max advert skip tends to be too short, however 6 minutes
>> is nearly always adequate in my experience.
>
> Yeah, six seems enough, and a couple 30 second skips after that in the
> rare instances it would not be.

In Germany we have regular breaks of about 6:30, so 7 would be even better. :)

Jan.

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mikep at randomtraveller

Nov 4, 2009, 3:38 AM

Post #44 of 140 (2180 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

Richard Morton wrote:
>
>> Maximum commercial skip (3600, the default)
> We tend to have less frequent longer advert breaks so a default of 5
> minutes for max advert skip tends to be too short, however 6 minutes
> is nearly always adequate in my experience.
>
I don't think so. In my experience, ITV and Channel 4 breaks are nearly always
exactly four minutes long when they occur within programs, unless the program
length is such that one gets reduced to pad. Yes, the breaks can be longer
between programs, but myth shouldn't be recording two programs in one file anyway.

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richard.e.morton at gmail

Nov 4, 2009, 3:59 AM

Post #45 of 140 (2183 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

Hi there,

That's fine for those two channels but what about the others on
sky/freeview/freesat and cable?

Five, fiver, five usa, dave, more4, e4 , itv2 are the channels with ads we
watch the most.
R

Please excuse brevity and mistakes, this email was composed on a mobile
phone.

Thanks and regards,
Richard Morton

On 4 Nov 2009 11:39, "Mike Perkins" <mikep [at] randomtraveller> wrote:

Richard Morton wrote: > > >> Maximum commercial skip (3600, the default) > >
We tend to have less fr...
I don't think so. In my experience, ITV and Channel 4 breaks are nearly
always exactly four minutes long when they occur within programs, unless the
program length is such that one gets reduced to pad. Yes, the breaks can be
longer between programs, but myth shouldn't be recording two programs in one
file anyway.

--

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mythtv at theseekerr

Nov 4, 2009, 4:05 AM

Post #46 of 140 (2177 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

> That's fine for those two channels but what about the others on
> sky/freeview/freesat and cable?
>
> Five, fiver, five usa, dave, more4, e4 , itv2 are the channels with ads we
> watch the most.
> R
>
> Please excuse brevity and mistakes, this email was composed on a mobile
> phone.
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Richard Morton

With many people submitting their particular situation as evidence it
should be one value or another, doesn't it prove that this setting is
user-configurable for a reason?
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linux at thehobsons

Nov 4, 2009, 4:22 AM

Post #47 of 140 (2148 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

Christopher Kerr wrote:

> > That's fine for those two channels but what about the others on
>> sky/freeview/freesat and cable?
>>
>> Five, fiver, five usa, dave, more4, e4 , itv2 are the channels with ads we
>> watch the most.
>> R
>>
>> Please excuse brevity and mistakes, this email was composed on a mobile
>> phone.
>>
>> Thanks and regards,
>> Richard Morton
>
>With many people submitting their particular situation as evidence it
>should be one value or another, doesn't it prove that this setting is
>user-configurable for a reason?

I was just thinking that myself. Also, since the program has to
include functionality to "skip unless it's more than x" then it would
seem that there isn't the code cleanup reason to remove this. Ie, the
code is virtually identical whether x is a compiled in fixed value or
fetched from a settings database.

I think it's the only one in the list I'd disagree with removing.

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Jim at Morton

Nov 4, 2009, 4:51 AM

Post #48 of 140 (2151 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

Simon Hobson wrote:
>
>>
>
> I was just thinking that myself. Also, since the program has to
> include functionality to "skip unless it's more than x" then it would
> seem that there isn't the code cleanup reason to remove this. Ie, the
> code is virtually identical whether x is a compiled in fixed value or
> fetched from a settings database.
>
> I think it's the only one in the list I'd disagree with removing.
>
This setting was not proposed to be removed. It was proposed that the
default be set to something "sensible". Hence the discussion on what is
a sensible default.

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digitalaudiorock at gmail

Nov 4, 2009, 4:56 AM

Post #49 of 140 (2145 views)
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Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Robert McNamara
<robert.mcnamara [at] gmail> wrote:
> Hello MythTV Community,
>
> Please feel free to peruse and comment on the list. Sometimes I note
> why a setting is a bad idea, or what the default behavior ought to be.
> A word of caution: Please keep the discussion civil. Sometimes,
> what might be a slight usability hit to one person drastically
> improves the experience for most others.

One setting I never understood under the TV->General->AutoExpire
settings is "Re-record watched". Apparently that causes a show to be
re-recorded if it's auto expired _and_ marked as watched. For some
reason mine was on, and certainly never set it, at least not
intentionally...luckily I discovered that before my drive recently got
full enough for auto-expiring to start occurring. I use the watched
flag to indicate that _I_ watched the show, so my wife knows that she
can delete it once she's done with it...so I have a lot of stuff
marked as watched. What's the intention behind that setting?...I
could never make sense out of it.

All in all I think this is a great effort. I detest the time it takes
me to find anything when I want to make a change, and I can't even
imagine the code behind all that.

Tom
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mythtv-users2 at dwilga-linux1

Nov 4, 2009, 5:27 AM

Post #50 of 140 (2133 views)
Permalink

Re: [RFC] Proposed settings rework [In reply to]

At 11:49 AM +1300 11/4/09, Nick Rout wrote:
>(2) make the settings more accessible. From each screen/plugin add a
>context menu button to go straight to the config options for that
>screen. (presently its escape back to main menu, forward through
>several setup menus, make the changes then escape back out to main
>menu and all the way back to your screen. My suggestion is not only
>more user friendly in terms of button presses, but may save those
>endless posts asking "where is the settings option for foobar" - the
>answer will become "from the foobar screen hit [info] and choose
>[settings]"

+1. It is maddeningly annoying to have to change something on the
fifth page of Playback Settings, then try playing something, only to
discover you need to go back and tweak the settings again.

I would also like to see the abolition of the "you have to go through
all ten pages of settings and click on Finish before any of your
changes will take effect" paradigm. This method is good when you want
to make a whole bunch of changes at once, but not when you want to
quickly change one thing and get back to where you were.

In an ideal UI, I should be able to get to the page I want, change
something, hit a Save button, and have it immediately return to
whatever task I was previously doing.
--
Dan Wilga "Ook."
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