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Replies with wrong "From"

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h.reindl at thelounge

Nov 17, 2009, 3:44 AM

Post #1 of 5 (876 views)
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Replies with wrong "From"

The way autoreplies are processed is wrong and dangerous

* In the MUA i see not from which address the reply comes
* Many servers will block as long the "From:" is the sender of original mail

Normally i should get in this sample am mail
"From: mailer [at] thelounge" instead "h.reindl [at] thelounge"
"To: h.reindl [at] thelounge" instead "undisclosed-recipients"

Loops should not happen because the replycache-table
As long both addresses are on the same server this is not so important,
but if we send mails from @gmx.net, @yahoo.com... the replies will
never get received and finally our server could be blocked somewhere

Received: by mail.thelounge.net (Postfix, from userid 493) id 2E978C0;
Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:15:26 +0100 (CET)
From: h.reindl [at] thelounge
Subject: Re: Reply-Test
X-DBMail-Reply: mailer [at] thelounge
Message-Id: <20091117111526.2E978C0 [at] mail>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:15:26 +0100 (CET)
To: undisclosed-recipients: ;
Return-Path: mailer [at] thelounge
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

--

Reindl Harald
the lounge interactive design GmbH
A-1060 Vienna | Hofmühlgasse 17
software-development / cms-solutions

phone: +43 (1) 595 3999 33
cellular: +43 (676) 40 221 40
icq: 154546673

mailto:h.reindl [at] thelounge
http://www.thelounge.net/

Attachments:

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paul at nfg

Nov 17, 2009, 7:52 AM

Post #2 of 5 (826 views)
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Re: Replies with wrong "From" [In reply to]

Harald,

For the record: the autoreply table is documented (only on the wiki) as
being dangerous, unsupported, deprecated, etc.... It's been removed
completely in the 2.3 releases.

The only auto-reply feature that is safe and supported is sieve.

Looking the the headers shown below, you're using the
dbmail_auto_replies table. Don't!

Reindl Harald wrote:
> The way autoreplies are processed is wrong and dangerous
>
> * In the MUA i see not from which address the reply comes
> * Many servers will block as long the "From:" is the sender of original mail
>
> Normally i should get in this sample am mail
> "From: mailer [at] thelounge" instead "h.reindl [at] thelounge"
> "To: h.reindl [at] thelounge" instead "undisclosed-recipients"
>
> Loops should not happen because the replycache-table
> As long both addresses are on the same server this is not so important,
> but if we send mails from @gmx.net, @yahoo.com... the replies will
> never get received and finally our server could be blocked somewhere
>
>
> Received: by mail.thelounge.net (Postfix, from userid 493) id 2E978C0;
> Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:15:26 +0100 (CET)
> From: h.reindl [at] thelounge
> Subject: Re: Reply-Test
> X-DBMail-Reply: mailer [at] thelounge
> Message-Id: <20091117111526.2E978C0 [at] mail>
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:15:26 +0100 (CET)
> To: undisclosed-recipients: ;
> Return-Path: mailer [at] thelounge
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> DBmail mailing list
> DBmail [at] dbmail
> http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

--
________________________________________________________________
Paul Stevens paul at nfg.nl
NET FACILITIES GROUP GPG/PGP: 1024D/11F8CD31
The Netherlands________________________________http://www.nfg.nl
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail [at] dbmail
http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

h.reindl at thelounge

Nov 17, 2009, 8:09 AM

Post #3 of 5 (825 views)
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Re: Replies with wrong "From" [In reply to]

Hallo Paul

Thank you very much for your answer

This is new and very bad for me because we have a really fine
webinterface with login against dbmail-usertables so everybody
can set his replies with the normal login-data

The same for central reply-managemt in our admin-interface

I have no idea how i should do this with sieve in future because we
switch here from mysql-database to a protocl and afaik there
can be only one active sieve-script for each user

I made this implementations after printout all dbmail-tables and
playing around in the database to provide a full featured interface
combined with many postfix-features which works really perfect

Am 17.11.2009 16:52, schrieb Paul J Stevens:
> Harald,
>
> For the record: the autoreply table is documented (only on the wiki) as
> being dangerous, unsupported, deprecated, etc.... It's been removed
> completely in the 2.3 releases.
>
> The only auto-reply feature that is safe and supported is sieve.
>
> Looking the the headers shown below, you're using the
> dbmail_auto_replies table. Don't!
>
>
>
>
>
> Reindl Harald wrote:
>> The way autoreplies are processed is wrong and dangerous
>>
>> * In the MUA i see not from which address the reply comes
>> * Many servers will block as long the "From:" is the sender of original mail
>>
>> Normally i should get in this sample am mail
>> "From: mailer [at] thelounge" instead "h.reindl [at] thelounge"
>> "To: h.reindl [at] thelounge" instead "undisclosed-recipients"
>>
>> Loops should not happen because the replycache-table
>> As long both addresses are on the same server this is not so important,
>> but if we send mails from @gmx.net, @yahoo.com... the replies will
>> never get received and finally our server could be blocked somewhere
>>
>>
>> Received: by mail.thelounge.net (Postfix, from userid 493) id 2E978C0;
>> Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:15:26 +0100 (CET)
>> From: h.reindl [at] thelounge
>> Subject: Re: Reply-Test
>> X-DBMail-Reply: mailer [at] thelounge
>> Message-Id: <20091117111526.2E978C0 [at] mail>
>> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:15:26 +0100 (CET)
>> To: undisclosed-recipients: ;
>> Return-Path: mailer [at] thelounge
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> DBmail mailing list
>> DBmail [at] dbmail
>> http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
>
>

--

Reindl Harald
the lounge interactive design GmbH
A-1060 Vienna | Hofmühlgasse 17
software-development / cms-solutions

phone: +43 (1) 595 3999 33
cellular: +43 (676) 40 221 40
icq: 154546673

mailto:h.reindl [at] thelounge
http://www.thelounge.net/

Attachments:

signature.asc (0.25 KB)

paul at nfg

Nov 17, 2009, 8:25 AM

Post #4 of 5 (822 views)
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Re: Replies with wrong "From" [In reply to]

Reindl Harald wrote:

> I have no idea how i should do this with sieve in future because we
> switch here from mysql-database to a protocl and afaik there
> can be only one active sieve-script for each user

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here.

Indeed, there can be only one active sieve script per user. But there is
nothing to prevent you from inserting sieve scripts directly through the
sql interface. No need to go through timsieved, unless you want to make
sure scripts are valid.

the basic autoreply sievescript reads as:
-------
require "vacation";
if true {
vacation :days 7 :addresses [$ADDRESS] :subject "$SUBJECT" "$BODY";
}
-------

where $ADDRESS is a comma delimited list of address that should respond,
$SUBJECT is the subject header for the reply message and $BODY is the,
well, body.

you can easily prepend this sieve snippet to any active sievescript, if
you allow users to set their own filters.

there is also a couple of PHP (and at least one python) implementations
of the client side of managesieve (the protocol spoken by dbmail-timsieved).

--
________________________________________________________________
Paul Stevens paul at nfg.nl
NET FACILITIES GROUP GPG/PGP: 1024D/11F8CD31
The Netherlands________________________________http://www.nfg.nl
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail [at] dbmail
http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

h.reindl at thelounge

Nov 18, 2009, 4:14 AM

Post #5 of 5 (820 views)
Permalink

Re: Replies with wrong "From" [In reply to]

Am 17.11.2009 17:25, schrieb Paul J Stevens:
> Reindl Harald wrote:
>
>> I have no idea how i should do this with sieve in future because we
>> switch here from mysql-database to a protocl and afaik there
>> can be only one active sieve-script for each user
>
> I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here.

We have implemented thousands of lines oo-code for the adminpanel and
most of the reply-features depends on the two reply-tables

* "reply-groups" where we can define lists auf accounts getting the same reply
* listing all active/inactive replies with dates
* listing last sent replies from the replycache

> Indeed, there can be only one active sieve script per user. But there is
> nothing to prevent you from inserting sieve scripts directly through the
> sql interface. No need to go through timsieved, unless you want to make
> sure scripts are valid.

A sample where this do not work or would not work really stable

* I have a big sieve-script which puts mails in many folders on the server
* This script is written with a thunderbird plugin
* The rules should be active even when i have a holiday-reply
* How do i handle this?
* syntax-errors are a problem because timsieved hangs if theres a error

I can send you some screenshots of our 100% self-written gui which
contains 11855 LOC after some weeks working night and day which could
explain my problem if we lost the explicit reply-tables and start
mixing userdefinied sieve-scripts with webui-controlled autoreplies

Sorry, i can not attach the screenshots public, but i attach the
"dbmail_reply"-class as textfile (depends on our own CMS and
many other libraries but should show what we do, even with
german comments)

Regards from vienna
Harry

Attachments:

reply_class.txt (11.1 KB)

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