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darvin.denmian at gmail

May 4, 2009, 1:13 PM

Post #1 of 27 (1264 views)
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Dbmail Hybrid

Hello,

i need to know if is possible to construct something like:

DBmail stores Message and the attachments of messages are stored outside
Mysql DB.

Thanks. !!!

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aaron at serendipity

May 4, 2009, 1:27 PM

Post #2 of 27 (1218 views)
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Re: Dbmail Hybrid [In reply to]

You could do this with a script or small LMTP server that sits between the
MTA and DBMail, and removes certain MIME attachments and replaces them with
e.g. a url to a web server where the attachment is now stores. I know of at
least one commercial product that does this, and there might be some open
source code to do the same. DBMail does not itself natively support doing
such a thing.

Aaron

On Mon, 4 May 2009 13:13:58 -0700 (PDT), Darvin Denmian
<darvin.denmian[at]gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> i need to know if is possible to construct something like:
>
> DBmail stores Message and the attachments of messages are stored outside
> Mysql DB.
>
> Thanks. !!!
>
> -----
> Free your mind.
_______________________________________________
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josh at worldhosting

May 4, 2009, 4:07 PM

Post #3 of 27 (1218 views)
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Re: Dbmail Hybrid [In reply to]

I believe we've all gone over this before, but remember if you do
something like this, you lose or complicate redundancy.

For example, our dbmail installation, which has over 4500 mailboxes and
100,000 emails/week has three mail servers and two database servers. The
database servers are MySQL in a master-master replication setup, with
one set as the active using ucarp (it's not smart to load balance
database servers with dbmail). The three mail servers are load balanced
with LVS on the firewalls. We have a backup database server that
replicates off a particular master, which is stopped daily to take a
snapshot, then restarted again. This takes backup load off the primary
database server.

If you store the messages outside the database and wanted redundancy
then you would have to share them on a file server using something like
NFS. This would add complexity, and I believe it would not increase
speed or availability.

A few other questions to ask yourself before doing such a thing include:

* Will it change the amount of disk space required? (Not really)
* What is your backup strategy? You may have to shut down the server to
get a true snapshot.
* What is your recovery strategy? Can you do a point-in-time recovery?
(NO, files are created and deleted)

Everything I see is that to pull the message contents out of the
database and store in the filesystem:

* Adds complexity to the creation and deletion of emails
* Adds complexity to backup and restore
* Adds complexity to a redundant system
* Limits the system to snapshot recoveries only, which affect the
operating speed of the mail system.
* Has little to no increase in speed

I'm not sure why you're wanting to store the messages on the filesystem
instead of in the database. I have had our customers on a postix-courier
setup using NFS as the backend. The dbmail solution has been much nicer
to administer. It's especially nice that when an email is deleted, it's
just an SQL and the email comes back (unless it's been purged by
dbmail-util)

Regards,
Josh.

> > i need to know if is possible to construct something like:
> >
> > DBmail stores Message and the attachments of messages are stored outside
> > Mysql DB.
> >
> > Thanks. !!!

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michael.monnerie at is

May 4, 2009, 10:36 PM

Post #4 of 27 (1216 views)
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Re: Dbmail Hybrid [In reply to]

On Montag 04 Mai 2009 Darvin Denmian wrote:
> DBmail stores Message and the attachments of messages are stored
> outside Mysql DB.

Use cyrus as your mailserver, then everything is a file. A mixture of
SQL+file combines the disadvantages of both, not the advantages.

mfg zmi
--
// Michael Monnerie, Ing.BSc ----- http://it-management.at
// Tel: 0660 / 415 65 31 .network.your.ideas.
// PGP Key: "curl -s http://zmi.at/zmi.asc | gpg --import"
// Fingerprint: AC19 F9D5 36ED CD8A EF38 500E CE14 91F7 1C12 09B4
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darvin.denmian at gmail

May 5, 2009, 12:45 PM

Post #5 of 27 (1214 views)
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Re: Dbmail Hybrid [In reply to]

Thanks for all replies

On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 2:36 AM, Michael Monnerie
<michael.monnerie[at]is.it-management.at> wrote:
> On Montag 04 Mai 2009 Darvin Denmian wrote:
>> DBmail stores Message and the attachments of messages are stored
>> outside Mysql DB.
>
> Use cyrus as your mailserver, then everything is a file. A mixture of
> SQL+file combines the disadvantages of both, not the advantages.
>
> mfg zmi
> --
> // Michael Monnerie, Ing.BSc � �----- � � �http://it-management..at
> // Tel: 0660 / 415 65 31 � � � � � � � � � � �.network.your.ideas.
> // PGP Key: � � � � "curl -s http://zmi.at/zmi.asc | gpg --import"
> // Fingerprint: AC19 F9D5 36ED CD8A EF38 �500E CE14 91F7 1C12 09B4
> // Keyserver: wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net � � � � � � � � �Key-ID: 1C1209B4
>
> _______________________________________________
> DBmail mailing list
> DBmail[at]dbmail.org
> http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
>
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darvin.denmian at gmail

May 7, 2009, 6:34 AM

Post #6 of 27 (1207 views)
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Re: Dbmail Hybrid [In reply to]

i was trying to remeber why i wanted to separate attachment and e-mail
message,honestly, 2 days have passed until I remember....i think i'm
drinking much beer :)

Now i have another questions:
1. Mysql will work fine with a lot of messages with attachment?
2. Mysql will not run slow?

Thanks !!!

On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Darvin Denmian <darvin.denmian[at]gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for all replies
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 2:36 AM, Michael Monnerie
> <michael.monnerie[at]is.it-management.at> wrote:
>> On Montag 04 Mai 2009 Darvin Denmian wrote:
>>> DBmail stores Message and the attachments of messages are stored
>>> outside Mysql DB.
>>
>> Use cyrus as your mailserver, then everything is a file. A mixture of
>> SQL+file combines the disadvantages of both, not the advantages.
>>
>> mfg zmi
>> --
>> // Michael Monnerie, Ing.BSc � �----- � � �http://it-management.at
>> // Tel: 0660 / 415 65 31 � � � � � � � � � � �.network.your.ideas.
>> // PGP Key: � � � � "curl -s http://zmi.at/zmi.asc | gpg --import"
>> // Fingerprint: AC19 F9D5 36ED CD8A EF38 �500E CE14 91F7 1C12 09B4
>> // Keyserver: wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net � � � � � � � � �Key-ID: 1C1209B4
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> DBmail mailing list
>> DBmail[at]dbmail.org
>> http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
>>
>
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aaron at serendipity

May 7, 2009, 8:20 AM

Post #7 of 27 (1208 views)
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Re: Dbmail Hybrid [In reply to]

Many mobile users I know really like this feature, so that they can quickly
download messages and simply see links to the attachments. IBM Lotus Domino
does this, perhaps only to the extent that it is a form of single-instance
storage, but I recall being shown an IBMer's Blackberry where an attachment
was replaced with an http url.

See http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/lotus/library/domino-green/ for how
terribly overbuilt you can make this feature.

Aaron

On Thu, 7 May 2009 10:34:21 -0300, Darvin Denmian
<darvin.denmian[at]gmail.com>
wrote:
> i was trying to remeber why i wanted to separate attachment and e-mail
> message,honestly, 2 days have passed until I remember....i think i'm
> drinking much beer :)
>
> Now i have another questions:
> 1. Mysql will work fine with a lot of messages with attachment?
> 2. Mysql will not run slow?
>
> Thanks !!!
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Darvin Denmian <darvin.denmian[at]gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Thanks for all replies
>>
>> On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 2:36 AM, Michael Monnerie
>> <michael.monnerie[at]is.it-management.at> wrote:
>>> On Montag 04 Mai 2009 Darvin Denmian wrote:
>>>> DBmail stores Message and the attachments of messages are stored
>>>> outside Mysql DB.
>>>
>>> Use cyrus as your mailserver, then everything is a file. A mixture of
>>> SQL+file combines the disadvantages of both, not the advantages.
>>>
>>> mfg zmi
>>> --
>>> // Michael Monnerie, Ing.BSc ----- http://it-management.at
>>> // Tel: 0660 / 415 65 31
>>> .network.your.ideas.
>>> // PGP Key: "curl -s http://zmi.at/zmi.asc | gpg --import"
>>> // Fingerprint: AC19 F9D5 36ED CD8A EF38 500E CE14 91F7 1C12 09B4
>>> // Keyserver: wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net Key-ID:
>>> 1C1209B4
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> DBmail mailing list
>>> DBmail[at]dbmail.org
>>> http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> DBmail mailing list
> DBmail[at]dbmail.org
> http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail[at]dbmail.org
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paul at nfg

May 7, 2009, 1:36 PM

Post #8 of 27 (1202 views)
Permalink

Re: Dbmail Hybrid [In reply to]

Doing a mobile-mode wouldn't even be reaching that far. We already have
single-instance storage of attachments. It's just a matter of changing
the message reconstruction strategy (into one much simpler than the
current mime-reconstruction), and exposing attachments over http. I
wonder if those blackberries have any security mechanism build into
those http references. Requiring basic-authentication on the message
involved would be minimal, and trivial to implement.

http://imapserver.mydomain.nl:14380/myusername/mailbox/message_uid/mimepart-hash

The dbmail-httpd would then, after authentication/authorization return
the attachment involved with the correct mime headers for the relevant
content, i.e. the message, so the client knows how to save the file.

Aaron Stone wrote:
> Many mobile users I know really like this feature, so that they can quickly
> download messages and simply see links to the attachments. IBM Lotus Domino
> does this, perhaps only to the extent that it is a form of single-instance
> storage, but I recall being shown an IBMer's Blackberry where an attachment
> was replaced with an http url.
>
> See http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/lotus/library/domino-green/ for how
> terribly overbuilt you can make this feature.
>
> Aaron
>
>
> On Thu, 7 May 2009 10:34:21 -0300, Darvin Denmian
> <darvin.denmian[at]gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> i was trying to remeber why i wanted to separate attachment and e-mail
>> message,honestly, 2 days have passed until I remember....i think i'm
>> drinking much beer :)
>>
>> Now i have another questions:
>> 1. Mysql will work fine with a lot of messages with attachment?
>> 2. Mysql will not run slow?
>>
>> Thanks !!!
>>
>> On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Darvin Denmian <darvin.denmian[at]gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Thanks for all replies
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 2:36 AM, Michael Monnerie
>>> <michael.monnerie[at]is.it-management.at> wrote:
>>>> On Montag 04 Mai 2009 Darvin Denmian wrote:
>>>>> DBmail stores Message and the attachments of messages are stored
>>>>> outside Mysql DB.
>>>> Use cyrus as your mailserver, then everything is a file. A mixture of
>>>> SQL+file combines the disadvantages of both, not the advantages.
>>>>
>>>> mfg zmi
>>>> --
>>>> // Michael Monnerie, Ing.BSc ----- http://it-management.at
>>>> // Tel: 0660 / 415 65 31
>>>> .network.your.ideas.
>>>> // PGP Key: "curl -s http://zmi.at/zmi.asc | gpg --import"
>>>> // Fingerprint: AC19 F9D5 36ED CD8A EF38 500E CE14 91F7 1C12 09B4
>>>> // Keyserver: wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net Key-ID:
>>>> 1C1209B4
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> DBmail mailing list
>>>> DBmail[at]dbmail.org
>>>> http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> DBmail mailing list
>> DBmail[at]dbmail.org
>> http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
> _______________________________________________
> DBmail mailing list
> DBmail[at]dbmail.org
> http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

--
________________________________________________________________
Paul Stevens paul at nfg.nl
NET FACILITIES GROUP GPG/PGP: 1024D/11F8CD31
The Netherlands________________________________http://www.nfg.nl
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curtis at maurand

May 7, 2009, 8:30 PM

Post #9 of 27 (1199 views)
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Re: Dbmail Hybrid [In reply to]

I find that on my moto-q talking to dbmail via imap, the outlook client (which can't seem to delete messages) takes care of the vagueries of attachment handling. It shows me that there are attachments, but doesn't download them unless I tell it to do so.

This was sent from the moto-q. Pardon he typos.

Cheers,
Curtis

-----Original Message-----
From: "Paul J Stevens" <paul[at]nfg.nl>
To: "DBMail mailinglist" <dbmail[at]dbmail.org>
Sent: 5/7/2009 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Dbmail] Dbmail Hybrid

Doing a mobile-mode wouldn't even be reaching that far. We already have
single-instance storage of attachments. It's just a matter of changing
the message reconstruction strategy (into one much simpler than the
current mime-reconstruction), and exposing attachments over http. I
wonder if those blackberries have any security mechanism build into
those http references. Requiring basic-authentication on the message
involved would be minimal, and trivial to implement.

http://imapserver.my
[truncated by sender]
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michael.monnerie at is

May 7, 2009, 11:09 PM

Post #10 of 27 (1199 views)
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Re: #noattach mode (was: Dbmail Hybrid) [In reply to]

On Donnerstag 07 Mai 2009 Paul J Stevens wrote:
> The dbmail-httpd would then, after authentication/authorization
> return the attachment involved with the correct mime headers for the
> relevant content, i.e. the message, so the client knows how to save
> the file.

Could that be done in a virtual mode? I mean:
a) the clients logs in with a special form of username, lets say instead
"client[at]domain" he uses "client[at]domain#noattach". This lets dbmail-(pop|
imap) switch to URL mode instead. For POP this only works if messages
are left on the server of course. (Maybe just forbid to delete mails for
POP when in #noattach mode).
b) Client gets, instead attachment, an URL like
http://dbmailwebserver/virtualurl. Whenever this URL gets called, a
script is executed checking login, and if this passes start the download
directly from the dbmail database, without needing to copy the file to
the filesystem. Maybe that needs to be done, but only as a temporary
file that's deleted after the download. What I'd not want is to copy all
attach files where an URL is generated to be copied to the filesystem,
just in case someone wants to download it.

Sounds very nice, all mobile users would love that!

mfg zmi
--
// Michael Monnerie, Ing.BSc ----- http://it-management.at
// Tel: 0660 / 415 65 31 .network.your.ideas.
// PGP Key: "curl -s http://zmi.at/zmi.asc | gpg --import"
// Fingerprint: AC19 F9D5 36ED CD8A EF38 500E CE14 91F7 1C12 09B4
// Keyserver: wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net Key-ID: 1C1209B4

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paul at nfg

May 8, 2009, 2:21 AM

Post #11 of 27 (1199 views)
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Re: #noattach mode [In reply to]

Michael Monnerie wrote:
> On Donnerstag 07 Mai 2009 Paul J Stevens wrote:
>> The dbmail-httpd would then, after authentication/authorization
>> return the attachment involved with the correct mime headers for the
>> relevant content, i.e. the message, so the client knows how to save
>> the file.
>
> Could that be done in a virtual mode? I mean:
> a) the clients logs in with a special form of username, lets say instead
> "client[at]domain" he uses "client[at]domain#noattach". This lets dbmail-(pop|
> imap) switch to URL mode instead. For POP this only works if messages
> are left on the server of course. (Maybe just forbid to delete mails for
> POP when in #noattach mode).

We'd have to make sure this doesn't break any rfcs. Checking the
usernamepart is already done atm with the usermap facility. Perhaps
using a different port would be easier then.

> b) Client gets, instead attachment, an URL like
> http://dbmailwebserver/virtualurl. Whenever this URL gets called, a
> script is executed checking login, and if this passes start the download
> directly from the dbmail database, without needing to copy the file to
> the filesystem. Maybe that needs to be done, but only as a temporary
> file that's deleted after the download. What I'd not want is to copy all
> attach files where an URL is generated to be copied to the filesystem,
> just in case someone wants to download it.

Ofcourse, nothing is copied to the filesystem.

--
________________________________________________________________
Paul Stevens paul at nfg.nl
NET FACILITIES GROUP GPG/PGP: 1024D/11F8CD31
The Netherlands________________________________http://www.nfg.nl
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michael.monnerie at is

May 8, 2009, 2:34 AM

Post #12 of 27 (1199 views)
Permalink

Re: #noattach mode [In reply to]

On Freitag 08 Mai 2009 Paul J Stevens wrote:
> We'd have to make sure this doesn't break any rfcs.

Do you mean the POP non-delete part? I'd say either you refuse deletion
when in #noattach mode, or only allow IMAP then. I guess it's better to
allow POP but refuse delete, in order to support as many options as
possible (I guess some phones/clients can't be configured to leave POP
mails on the server). After all, people must make a special config so
they *know* they don't want attachments, and are willing to take this
"risk".

> Checking the
> usernamepart is already done atm with the usermap facility. Perhaps
> using a different port would be easier then.

Yes, that's better. But aren't there phones/clients where you cannot
even configure a port?

mfg zmi
--
// Michael Monnerie, Ing.BSc ----- http://it-management.at
// Tel: 0660 / 415 65 31 .network.your.ideas.
// PGP Key: "curl -s http://zmi.at/zmi.asc | gpg --import"
// Fingerprint: AC19 F9D5 36ED CD8A EF38 500E CE14 91F7 1C12 09B4
// Keyserver: wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net Key-ID: 1C1209B4

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josh at worldhosting

May 10, 2009, 3:37 PM

Post #13 of 27 (1181 views)
Permalink

Re: #noattach mode [In reply to]

> Yes, that's better. But aren't there phones/clients where you cannot
> even configure a port?

Not sure on your setup, but if you have access to multiple IP addresses,
you can put a rule on the firewall to forward port 110 to e.g. 111 on
the internal server. Otherwise default to internal clients connect to
port 110 and external clients connect to port 111 via a portforward on
the firewall.

Just a thought

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michael.monnerie at is

May 10, 2009, 10:14 PM

Post #14 of 27 (1178 views)
Permalink

Re: #noattach mode [In reply to]

On Montag 11 Mai 2009 Josh Marshall wrote:
> Not sure on your setup, but if you have access to multiple IP
> addresses, you can put a rule on the firewall to forward port 110 to
> e.g. 111 on the internal server. Otherwise default to internal
> clients connect to port 110 and external clients connect to port 111
> via a portforward on the firewall.

I prefer to KISS, so doing nasty firewall NAT is something I do as a
last resort, as it's something that keeps the "junior admins" bang their
heads ;-)

mfg zmi
--
// Michael Monnerie, Ing.BSc ----- http://it-management.at
// Tel: 0660 / 415 65 31 .network.your.ideas.
// PGP Key: "curl -s http://zmi.at/zmi.asc | gpg --import"
// Fingerprint: AC19 F9D5 36ED CD8A EF38 500E CE14 91F7 1C12 09B4
// Keyserver: wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net Key-ID: 1C1209B4

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paul at nfg

May 11, 2009, 12:13 AM

Post #15 of 27 (1178 views)
Permalink

Re: #noattach mode [In reply to]

Michael Monnerie wrote:
> On Montag 11 Mai 2009 Josh Marshall wrote:
>> Not sure on your setup, but if you have access to multiple IP
>> addresses, you can put a rule on the firewall to forward port 110 to
>> e.g. 111 on the internal server. Otherwise default to internal
>> clients connect to port 110 and external clients connect to port 111
>> via a portforward on the firewall.
>
> I prefer to KISS, so doing nasty firewall NAT is something I do as a
> last resort, as it's something that keeps the "junior admins" bang their
> heads ;-)

I was more thinking along the lines of usermap. Currently we support:

login sock_allow sock_deny userid
-+------------+----------------------+----------------------+----------
|ANY | inet:10.1.1.2:143 | | %s[at]d.com

where someone logging in with 'somename' is mapped to 'somename[at]d.com'
if accessing port 10.1.1.2:143

along the sames lines we could do:

login sock_allow sock_deny userid
-+------------+----------------------+----------------------+----------
|MOBILE | inet:10.1.1.3:143 | | %s#mobile

so here 'somename' is mapped to a /virtual/ userid if accessing port
10.1.1.3:143, a different ip address.

contrary to the first example the login wouldnt be mapped to a 'real'
userid, but to an id that will trigger special behaviour down the line.
In this case resulting in a changed mime reconstruction using URL
references to attachments.

Of course, you could have some mailclient use the virtual userid
directly without using usermap, but with usermap all you'd have to
explain to your mobile device users would be to use an other servername.

--
________________________________________________________________
Paul Stevens paul at nfg.nl
NET FACILITIES GROUP GPG/PGP: 1024D/11F8CD31
The Netherlands________________________________http://www.nfg.nl
_______________________________________________
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michael.monnerie at is

May 11, 2009, 7:26 AM

Post #16 of 27 (1167 views)
Permalink

Re: #noattach mode [In reply to]

On Montag 11 Mai 2009 Paul J Stevens wrote:
> Of course, you could have some mailclient use the virtual userid
> directly without using usermap, but with usermap all you'd have to
> explain to your mobile device users would be to use an other
> servername.

But that servername needs another IP, right? I'd prefer not to waste an
IP just for #mobile mode. Another port is sufficient. It should be
possible to use it with another IP, though, as some clients might need
that.

Not to be nasty with the name, but I think #mobile is not as good a name
as #noattach, as I might want #mobile mode also when I'm at an internet
cafe, or other environment.

mfg zmi
--
// Michael Monnerie, Ing.BSc ----- http://it-management.at
// Tel: 0660 / 415 65 31 .network.your.ideas.
// PGP Key: "curl -s http://zmi.at/zmi.asc | gpg --import"
// Fingerprint: AC19 F9D5 36ED CD8A EF38 500E CE14 91F7 1C12 09B4
// Keyserver: wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net Key-ID: 1C1209B4

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paul at nfg

May 11, 2009, 7:56 AM

Post #17 of 27 (1167 views)
Permalink

Re: #noattach mode [In reply to]

Michael Monnerie wrote:
> On Montag 11 Mai 2009 Paul J Stevens wrote:
>> Of course, you could have some mailclient use the virtual userid
>> directly without using usermap, but with usermap all you'd have to
>> explain to your mobile device users would be to use an other
>> servername.
>
> But that servername needs another IP, right? I'd prefer not to waste an
> IP just for #mobile mode. Another port is sufficient. It should be
> possible to use it with another IP, though, as some clients might need
> that.

Your choice. Usermap is keyed on the socket. As long as it's unique,
it's ok. Dedicated port, dedicated ip, should all be fine.

>
> Not to be nasty with the name, but I think #mobile is not as good a name
> as #noattach, as I might want #mobile mode also when I'm at an internet
> cafe, or other environment.

?? Most people are mobile when in a cafe. Also #mobile sounds better (no
negative) to me.

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vulture at netvulture

May 11, 2009, 7:14 PM

Post #18 of 27 (1161 views)
Permalink

Re: #noattach mode [In reply to]

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but we are talking about having dbmail
intelligently rewrite messages for clients on demand. This could pose a
big problem with the fact that all messages in a mailbox would have to
be rewritten before a simple list command could be fulfilled as the size
of the messages would be different than what is stored already in a
column. And future versions of dbmail may fix the message differently,
thus storing the new value could also prove pointless. While I like the
idea, I don't think it will be a feasible solution without a lot of work
to the code, and a huge load on the database and dbmail servers at
runtime. As an IT administrator, I don't want to be the one who gets the
call from the CEO when his email on his blackberry is missing the very
important forwarded as an attachment email is replaced with a message -
attachment(s) is/are available on your non-mobile client.

2 more cents
-Jon

Paul J Stevens wrote:
> Michael Monnerie wrote:
>
>> On Montag 11 Mai 2009 Paul J Stevens wrote:
>>
>>> Of course, you could have some mailclient use the virtual userid
>>> directly without using usermap, but with usermap all you'd have to
>>> explain to your mobile device users would be to use an other
>>> servername.
>>>
>> But that servername needs another IP, right? I'd prefer not to waste an
>> IP just for #mobile mode. Another port is sufficient. It should be
>> possible to use it with another IP, though, as some clients might need
>> that.
>>
>
> Your choice. Usermap is keyed on the socket. As long as it's unique,
> it's ok. Dedicated port, dedicated ip, should all be fine.
>
>
>> Not to be nasty with the name, but I think #mobile is not as good a name
>> as #noattach, as I might want #mobile mode also when I'm at an internet
>> cafe, or other environment.
>>
>
> ?? Most people are mobile when in a cafe. Also #mobile sounds better (no
> negative) to me.
>
>
>
>

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michael.monnerie at is

May 11, 2009, 11:08 PM

Post #19 of 27 (1161 views)
Permalink

Re: #noattach mode [In reply to]

On Montag 11 Mai 2009 Paul J Stevens wrote:
> > Not to be nasty with the name, but I think #mobile is not as good a
> > name as #noattach, as I might want #mobile mode also when I'm at an
> > internet cafe, or other environment.
>
> ?? Most people are mobile when in a cafe. Also #mobile sounds better
> (no negative) to me.

Ah, different understanding. "Mobile" here is more interpreted to
"mobile phone" (or "Handy", as we call them) or UMTS/GPRS connection, so
an Internet cafe would not really be "Mobile" in the users head.
Funny that you'd see "no" as negative, as in my head "noattach" gets a
positive "wow that will be fast to receive on my phone" connex.

But any way, no problem with any name. Just a thought.

mfg zmi
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michael.monnerie at is

May 11, 2009, 11:16 PM

Post #20 of 27 (1162 views)
Permalink

Re: #noattach mode [In reply to]

On Dienstag 12 Mai 2009 Jonathan Feally wrote:
>�This could
> pose a big problem with the fact that all messages in a mailbox would
> have to be rewritten before a simple list command could be fulfilled
> as the size of the messages would be different than what is stored
> already in a column.

We are speaking about a mode which really breaks RFCs anyway. Will there
be problems when you report the normal message size, say 5MB, to a
client and then the mail is only 20KB received size? I guess the
progress bar will get messed up, but the rest should be OK.

> As an IT administrator, I
> don't want to be the one who gets the call from the CEO when his
> email on his blackberry is missing the very important forwarded as an
> attachment email is replaced with a message - attachment(s) is/are
> available on your non-mobile client.

The CEO, or his techie, must explicitly configure #mobile mode. If you
are afraid, don't do that. Use it only for people who you can explain
the implications.
And: the attachments are not only available on his PC, but he gets a
https: link sent with the mail, replacing the attachment. A click on
that link will download the attachment. After all, this mode helps
saving time to receive a message, which is welcome to most mobile users.
Blackberry gets mail pushed on it anyway, so maybe you don't want
#mobile mode there, as you don't see the time it takes to receive a mail
normally.

mfg zmi
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daniel at gosi

May 12, 2009, 1:20 AM

Post #21 of 27 (1158 views)
Permalink

Re: #noattach mode [In reply to]

Talking about breaking the RFC, I wonder if I got this wrong or right:
the plan is to put another interface to the database via the dbmail
daemon,
that would offer that as additional functionality, right?

So actually inside the database the message will not get altered in
any way,
so I can see the message via dbmail-imap the normal way and if I connect
through the user mapped ip/port the messages will be shown without
attachments,
but will include links to download those attachments?

I hope it got it right this way, as it seems a really nice solution,
since it won�t
break anything for the "normal" users and those who want mobile access
can use that with the implecations..

greetings,
Daniel
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paul at nfg

May 12, 2009, 2:06 AM

Post #22 of 27 (1157 views)
Permalink

Re: #noattach mode [In reply to]

Daniel Urst�ger wrote:
> Talking about breaking the RFC, I wonder if I got this wrong or right:
> the plan is to put another interface to the database via the dbmail
> daemon,
> that would offer that as additional functionality, right?

Well, 'plan' is somewhat optimistic. 'Design idea' would describe this
better since no-one has actually committed any resource to implementing
this :-)

But you got it right otherwise.

>
> So actually inside the database the message will not get altered in
> any way,
> so I can see the message via dbmail-imap the normal way and if I connect
> through the user mapped ip/port the messages will be shown without
> attachments,
> but will include links to download those attachments?

Usermapped ip/port or via a special 'virtual' username extension
'#mobile' or '#noattach' or whatever is decided on.

>
> I hope it got it right this way, as it seems a really nice solution,
> since it won�t
> break anything for the "normal" users and those who want mobile access
> can use that with the implecations..

correct.

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daniel at gosi

May 12, 2009, 2:20 AM

Post #23 of 27 (1157 views)
Permalink

Re: #noattach mode [In reply to]

> Daniel Urst�ger wrote:
>> Talking about breaking the RFC, I wonder if I got this wrong or
>> right:
>> the plan is to put another interface to the database via the dbmail
>> daemon,
>> that would offer that as additional functionality, right?
>
> Well, 'plan' is somewhat optimistic. 'Design idea' would describe this
> better since no-one has actually committed any resource to
> implementing
> this :-)
>
> But you got it right otherwise.

okay, well I have some spare time but I am not familiar with the 2.3
database scheme,
I made a web interface for dbmail 2.2, which does management of the
users, sub user,
imap folders, etc. but not for 2.3 since I directly grab the email out
from the database
and not via IMAP...

So ... I prolly would enjoy that but I guess first I have to have a
decent look into the
new scheme and also I am haven�t done any code changes on dbmail yet,
so prolly
that will just end in a mess ...

>
>>
>> So actually inside the database the message will not get altered in
>> any way,
>> so I can see the message via dbmail-imap the normal way and if I
>> connect
>> through the user mapped ip/port the messages will be shown without
>> attachments,
>> but will include links to download those attachments?
>
> Usermapped ip/port or via a special 'virtual' username extension
> '#mobile' or '#noattach' or whatever is decided on.

Those are the kinds of changes I am quite sure you are the only one
capable of
doing that, right? ;)

>
>>
>> I hope it got it right this way, as it seems a really nice solution,
>> since it won�t
>> break anything for the "normal" users and those who want mobile
>> access
>> can use that with the implecations..
>
> correct.

well, at least I understand the plan!
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michael.monnerie at is

May 12, 2009, 1:05 PM

Post #24 of 27 (1154 views)
Permalink

Re: #noattach mode [In reply to]

On Dienstag 12 Mai 2009 Daniel Urst�ger wrote:
> > Usermapped ip/port or via a special 'virtual' username extension
> > '#mobile' or '#noattach' or whatever is decided on.
>
> Those are the kinds of changes I am quite sure you are the only one �
> capable of doing that, right? ;)

Well, with a good towel, beer and peanuts, and a Vorgon spaceship you
could travel to Alpha Centauri to get a three-brained hacker from there.
He'd only take 2 years to study the code and do that stuff. On the other
hand, there are for sure good hackers on this planet as well, but no one
seems to have found his way to dbmail-dev.

PS: Those not knowing Douglas Adams are forgiven.

mfg zmi
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mysql.jorge at decimal

May 12, 2009, 1:09 PM

Post #25 of 27 (1153 views)
Permalink

Re: #noattach mode [In reply to]

> PS: Those not knowing Douglas Adams are forgiven.

Good to know that I'm forgiven :P
Who was he?

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