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Automatically create imap folders

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move at inbox

Feb 18, 2009, 9:04 AM

Post #1 of 19 (1622 views)
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Automatically create imap folders

Hey,
Here's a thing. I'd like to automatically create at least Sent Items
folder, so that it was there when my users log in via IMAP. I've read
up on the fact that it is not such a good idea, but to me.. it just
seems a BETTER idea than having to explain to EVERYBODY how to create
a new imap folder, set up an outlook rule and what not.
>From what I understand, this is mainly microsoft outlook problem (and
in case anyone knows how to fix this outlook-side, you're more than
welcome to chip in), also roundcube webmail client doesnt create
folders automatically. On the other hand, outlook express and
thunderbird does create them automatically.
So, does anyone have any ideas about this?
Cheers,
Matt

aaron at serendipity

Feb 18, 2009, 9:31 AM

Post #2 of 19 (1572 views)
Permalink

Re: Automatically create imap folders [In reply to]

In my opinion, this should have been made a standard the same way the Inbox
is standard. At this point, different mail programs have different sets of
default Sent, Drafts, and Trash folders -- and in other languages,
translations of those as the folder names -- that formal standardization
isn't possible. The most common are "Inbox, Sent, Drafts, Trash", but then
there's "Sent Items" and "sent-items", too! And "Junk" / "Junk Mail" /
"Spam" as well!

So, what specifically is the user experience problem you have in Outlook?
(And what versions of Outlook are you using?)

As for RoundCube, I'm sure that the default set of folders can be made
configurable. I'm actually composing this reply in RC, and I see "Inbox,
Drafts, Sent, Junk, Trash" as the first five items in my mail folder list.
I don't know if it would have auto-created those folders for me if I didn't
already have them, though.

Aaron

On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 19:04:19 +0200, Matiss <move[at]inbox.lv> wrote:
> Hey,
> Here's a thing. I'd like to automatically create at least Sent Items
> folder, so that it was there when my users log in via IMAP. I've read
> up on the fact that it is not such a good idea, but to me.. it just
> seems a BETTER idea than having to explain to EVERYBODY how to create
> a new imap folder, set up an outlook rule and what not.
>>From what I understand, this is mainly microsoft outlook problem (and
> in case anyone knows how to fix this outlook-side, you're more than
> welcome to chip in), also roundcube webmail client doesnt create
> folders automatically. On the other hand, outlook express and
> thunderbird does create them automatically.
> So, does anyone have any ideas about this?
> Cheers,
> Matt
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail[at]dbmail.org
https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

move at inbox

Feb 18, 2009, 11:31 AM

Post #3 of 19 (1570 views)
Permalink

Re: Automatically create imap folders [In reply to]

The experience problem concludes in the fact, that users don't see
folders they are used to, like Drafts, Sent Items, and Outlook 2007
asks, where to store sent mail, when sending mail for the first time
(thanks for that, MS!) - however I'm not sure what happens with
Drafts. Outlook just creates Junk Email, and Inbox, of course, is
there.
Now, why Outlook wouldn't create all the other folders when even OE
can do it, is beyond my understanding. Or there is a button somewhere
for that?
I guess one way would be to write a script which creates these
folders in dbmail DB, and subscribes users to them, this way at least
when outlook prompts users to indicate, where to store mail, there
will be a folder ready.
I'm using both Outlook 2007 and 2003. And, indeed, RoundCube is least
of my worries now, I'm sure if I get outlook to work, roundcube will
follow easily. :)
Quoting Aaron Stone : In my opinion, this should have been made a
standard the same way the Inbox
is standard. At this point, different mail programs have different
sets of
default Sent, Drafts, and Trash folders -- and in other languages,
translations of those as the folder names -- that formal
standardization
isn't possible. The most common are "Inbox, Sent, Drafts, Trash",
but then
there's "Sent Items" and "sent-items", too! And "Junk" / "Junk Mail"
/
"Spam" as well!
So, what specifically is the user experience problem you have in
Outlook?
(And what versions of Outlook are you using?)
As for RoundCube, I'm sure that the default set of folders can be
made
configurable. I'm actually composing this reply in RC, and I see
"Inbox,
Drafts, Sent, Junk, Trash" as the first five items in my mail folder
list.
I don't know if it would have auto-created those folders for me if I
didn't
already have them, though.
Aaron
On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 19:04:19 +0200, Matiss wrote:
> Hey,
> Here's a thing. I'd like to automatically create at least Sent
Items
> folder, so that it was there when my users log in via IMAP. I've
read
> up on the fact that it is not such a good idea, but to me.. it
just
> seems a BETTER idea than having to explain to EVERYBODY how to
create
> a new imap folder, set up an outlook rule and what not.
>>From what I understand, this is mainly microsoft outlook problem
(and
> in case anyone knows how to fix this outlook-side, you're more
than
> welcome to chip in), also roundcube webmail client doesnt create
> folders automatically. On the other hand, outlook express and
> thunderbird does create them automatically.
> So, does anyone have any ideas about this?
> Cheers,
> Matt
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail[at]dbmail.org
https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
-- Tavs bezmaksas pasts Inbox.lv

Links:
------
[1] mailto:aaron[at]serendipity.cx

aaron at serendipity

Feb 18, 2009, 12:09 PM

Post #4 of 19 (1571 views)
Permalink

Re: Automatically create imap folders [In reply to]

I think your best bet is a script that creates the mailboxes that you know
your users will need.

Aaron

On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:31:21 +0200, Matiss <move[at]inbox.lv> wrote:
> The experience problem concludes in the fact, that users don't see
> folders they are used to, like Drafts, Sent Items, and Outlook 2007
> asks, where to store sent mail, when sending mail for the first time
> (thanks for that, MS!) - however I'm not sure what happens with
> Drafts. Outlook just creates Junk Email, and Inbox, of course, is
> there.
> Now, why Outlook wouldn't create all the other folders when even OE
> can do it, is beyond my understanding. Or there is a button somewhere
> for that?
> I guess one way would be to write a script which creates these
> folders in dbmail DB, and subscribes users to them, this way at least
> when outlook prompts users to indicate, where to store mail, there
> will be a folder ready.
> I'm using both Outlook 2007 and 2003. And, indeed, RoundCube is least
> of my worries now, I'm sure if I get outlook to work, roundcube will
> follow easily. :)
> Quoting Aaron Stone : In my opinion, this should have been made a
> standard the same way the Inbox
> is standard. At this point, different mail programs have different
> sets of
> default Sent, Drafts, and Trash folders -- and in other languages,
> translations of those as the folder names -- that formal
> standardization
> isn't possible. The most common are "Inbox, Sent, Drafts, Trash",
> but then
> there's "Sent Items" and "sent-items", too! And "Junk" / "Junk Mail"
> /
> "Spam" as well!
> So, what specifically is the user experience problem you have in
> Outlook?
> (And what versions of Outlook are you using?)
> As for RoundCube, I'm sure that the default set of folders can be
> made
> configurable. I'm actually composing this reply in RC, and I see
> "Inbox,
> Drafts, Sent, Junk, Trash" as the first five items in my mail folder
> list.
> I don't know if it would have auto-created those folders for me if I
> didn't
> already have them, though.
> Aaron
> On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 19:04:19 +0200, Matiss wrote:
> > Hey,
> > Here's a thing. I'd like to automatically create at least Sent
> Items
> > folder, so that it was there when my users log in via IMAP. I've
> read
> > up on the fact that it is not such a good idea, but to me.. it
> just
> > seems a BETTER idea than having to explain to EVERYBODY how to
> create
> > a new imap folder, set up an outlook rule and what not.
> >>From what I understand, this is mainly microsoft outlook problem
> (and
> > in case anyone knows how to fix this outlook-side, you're more
> than
> > welcome to chip in), also roundcube webmail client doesnt create
> > folders automatically. On the other hand, outlook express and
> > thunderbird does create them automatically.
> > So, does anyone have any ideas about this?
> > Cheers,
> > Matt
> _______________________________________________
> DBmail mailing list
> DBmail[at]dbmail.org
> https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
> -- Tavs bezmaksas pasts Inbox.lv
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] mailto:aaron[at]serendipity.cx
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
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https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

daniel at gosi

Feb 18, 2009, 12:26 PM

Post #5 of 19 (1567 views)
Permalink

Re: Automatically create imap folders [In reply to]

> I think your best bet is a script that creates the mailboxes that
> you know
> your users will need.
>
> Aaron

I have to agree!

Been there last year and had exactly the same issue with Outlook. No
matter if you have 2003 or 2007, they are all the same.
Ended up pre-creating the folders so Outlook would find/accept them,
Outlook Express and most other mail clients did also, so that was a
quite good way of solving it.
The most painfull thing was the "junk" folder, since most mail clients
name it differently, but as there is no standard you cannot do
anything about that...

greetings,
Daniel
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail[at]dbmail.org
https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

paul at nfg

Feb 18, 2009, 1:30 PM

Post #6 of 19 (1569 views)
Permalink

Re: Automatically create imap folders [In reply to]

Daniel Urst�ger wrote:
> Ended up pre-creating the folders so Outlook would find/accept them,

use this for mysql:

DROP TRIGGER IF EXISTS dbmail_mailboxes_autocreate;
CREATE TRIGGER dbmail_mailboxes_autocreate AFTER INSERT ON dbmail_users
FOR EACH ROW
insert into dbmail_mailboxes (owner_idnr,name) values
(NEW.user_idnr,'INBOX'),
(NEW.user_idnr,'Sent'),
(NEW.user_idnr,'Draft'),
(NEW.user_idnr,'Trash'),
(NEW.user_idnr,'Junk')
;

--
________________________________________________________________
Paul Stevens paul at nfg.nl
NET FACILITIES GROUP GPG/PGP: 1024D/11F8CD31
The Netherlands________________________________http://www.nfg.nl
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail[at]dbmail.org
https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

daniel at gosi

Feb 18, 2009, 1:52 PM

Post #7 of 19 (1569 views)
Permalink

Re: Automatically create imap folders [In reply to]

> use this for mysql:
>
> DROP TRIGGER IF EXISTS dbmail_mailboxes_autocreate;
> CREATE TRIGGER dbmail_mailboxes_autocreate AFTER INSERT ON
> dbmail_users
> FOR EACH ROW
> insert into dbmail_mailboxes (owner_idnr,name) values
> (NEW.user_idnr,'INBOX'),
> (NEW.user_idnr,'Sent'),
> (NEW.user_idnr,'Draft'),
> (NEW.user_idnr,'Trash'),
> (NEW.user_idnr,'Junk')
> ;

Thanks Paul!
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail[at]dbmail.org
https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

move at inbox

Feb 18, 2009, 10:49 PM

Post #8 of 19 (1564 views)
Permalink

Re: Automatically create imap folders [In reply to]

Thanks a lot, Paul, Daniel, Aaron!
In this particular situation, I already have users added, but I'll
just write a script that walks through dbmail_users and creates those
mailboxes.
Cheers,
Matiss
Quoting "Daniel Urstöger" : > use this for mysql:
>
> DROP TRIGGER IF EXISTS dbmail_mailboxes_autocreate;
> CREATE TRIGGER dbmail_mailboxes_autocreate AFTER INSERT ON
> dbmail_users
> FOR EACH ROW
> insert into dbmail_mailboxes (owner_idnr,name)
values
> (NEW.user_idnr,'INBOX'),
> (NEW.user_idnr,'Sent'),
> (NEW.user_idnr,'Draft'),
> (NEW.user_idnr,'Trash'),
> (NEW.user_idnr,'Junk')
> ;
Thanks Paul!
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail[at]dbmail.org
https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

Links:
------
[1] mailto:daniel[at]gosi.at

move at inbox

Feb 18, 2009, 11:15 PM

Post #9 of 19 (1565 views)
Permalink

Re: Automatically create imap folders [In reply to]

Btw, what would be the syntax to create an autosubscription too (how
to use mailbox IDs just created in next INSERT)? And on a side note,
in your example, inbox doesn't need to be created, because it is
already created on a trigger event.
Cheers,
Matiss
Quoting Paul J Stevens : Daniel Urstöger wrote:
> Ended up pre-creating the folders so Outlook would find/accept
them,
use this for mysql:
DROP TRIGGER IF EXISTS dbmail_mailboxes_autocreate;
CREATE TRIGGER dbmail_mailboxes_autocreate AFTER INSERT ON
dbmail_users
FOR EACH ROW
insert into dbmail_mailboxes (owner_idnr,name) values
(NEW.user_idnr,'INBOX'),
(NEW.user_idnr,'Sent'),
(NEW.user_idnr,'Draft'),
(NEW.user_idnr,'Trash'),
(NEW.user_idnr,'Junk')
;
--
________________________________________________________________
Paul Stevens paul at nfg.nl
NET FACILITIES GROUP GPG/PGP: 1024D/11F8CD31
The Netherlands________________________________http://www.nfg.nl
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail[at]dbmail.org
https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
-- Tavs bezmaksas pasts Inbox.lv

Links:
------
[1] mailto:paul[at]nfg.nl

move at inbox

Feb 18, 2009, 11:45 PM

Post #10 of 19 (1567 views)
Permalink

Re: Automatically create imap folders [In reply to]

And one more thing,
How did you get outlook to "accept" them as special folders? Most
luck I'm having with Sent Items, this I can find, where to configure.
But what about drafts? Deleted Items? What am I missing?
Cheers,
Matiss
Quoting "Daniel Urstöger" : > I think your best bet is a script
that creates the mailboxes that
> you know
> your users will need.
>
> Aaron
I have to agree!
Been there last year and had exactly the same issue with Outlook. No

matter if you have 2003 or 2007, they are all the same.
Ended up pre-creating the folders so Outlook would find/accept them,

Outlook Express and most other mail clients did also, so that was a

quite good way of solving it.
The most painfull thing was the "junk" folder, since most mail
clients
name it differently, but as there is no standard you cannot do
anything about that...
greetings,
Daniel
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail[at]dbmail.org
https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
-- Tavs bezmaksas pasts Inbox.lv

Links:
------
[1] mailto:daniel[at]gosi.at

daniel at gosi

Feb 19, 2009, 2:46 AM

Post #11 of 19 (1564 views)
Permalink

Re: Automatically create imap folders [In reply to]

> And one more thing,
>
> How did you get outlook to "accept" them as special folders? Most
> luck I'm having with Sent Items, this I can find, where to
> configure. But what about drafts? Deleted Items? What am I missing?
>
> Cheers,
> Matiss

That was quite easy to figure out: you just need to test what Outlook
uses as default names.
The fun part is, that this also seems to change with the language your
Outlook runs in and I think you cannot configure most of folder names.
For German the folders were/are: "INBOX", "Gesendete Objekte",
"Papierkorb", "Junk","Entw�rfe".
Outlook really seems to like its Exchange and disslike IMAP servers.
Outlook Express does fine, but for Outlook itself, well it is painful.

I really hope for the English version it is more like "INBOX", "Sent",
"Trash", etc. but you have to test for yourself...

greetings,
Daniel_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail[at]dbmail.org
https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

michael.monnerie at is

Feb 20, 2009, 11:46 PM

Post #12 of 19 (1534 views)
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Re: Automatically create imap folders [In reply to]

On Donnerstag 19 Februar 2009 Daniel Urst�ger wrote:
> Outlook really seems to like its Exchange and disslike IMAP servers.
> � Outlook Express does fine, but for Outlook itself, well it is
> painful.

Of course, that's the Microsoft way. Would it be bad to assume they do
that to show everybody that "IMAP is bad, use Exchange server"? My
collegue, who installs lots of PCs, just recently told be exactly that.
And I had to clarify that it's not IMAP that's broken, it's just
Outlook. But that's (not?) what Windows users/admins see...

mfg zmi
--
// Michael Monnerie, Ing.BSc ----- http://it-management.at
// Tel: 0660 / 415 65 31 .network.your.ideas.
// PGP Key: "curl -s http://zmi.at/zmi.asc | gpg --import"
// Fingerprint: AC19 F9D5 36ED CD8A EF38 500E CE14 91F7 1C12 09B4
// Keyserver: wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net Key-ID: 1C1209B4

Attachments:

signature.asc (0.19 KB)

aaron at serendipity

Feb 21, 2009, 10:24 AM

Post #13 of 19 (1538 views)
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Re: Automatically create imap folders [In reply to]

On Sat, 2009-02-21 at 08:46 +0100, Michael Monnerie wrote:
> On Donnerstag 19 Februar 2009 Daniel Urstöger wrote:
> > Outlook really seems to like its Exchange and disslike IMAP servers.
> > Outlook Express does fine, but for Outlook itself, well it is
> > painful.
>
> Of course, that's the Microsoft way. Would it be bad to assume they do
> that to show everybody that "IMAP is bad, use Exchange server"? My
> collegue, who installs lots of PCs, just recently told be exactly that.
> And I had to clarify that it's not IMAP that's broken, it's just
> Outlook. But that's (not?) what Windows users/admins see...

And, frankly, Outlook does a very good job at what it does for email and
calendaring with Exchange server.

Delivering a comprehensive alternative stack that works at least as
well, and can beat out Outlook on Windows for the business people every
organization can't get rid of remains an elusive goal.

Aaron

_______________________________________________
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mysql.jorge at decimal

Feb 21, 2009, 12:39 PM

Post #14 of 19 (1530 views)
Permalink

RE: Automatically create imap folders [In reply to]

> And, frankly, Outlook does a very good job at what it does for email
> and
> calendaring with Exchange server.
>
> Delivering a comprehensive alternative stack that works at least as
> well, and can beat out Outlook on Windows for the business people every
> organization can't get rid of remains an elusive goal.
>

And if in a later version, maybe 3.x, DBMail had an integration with openchange?

_______________________________________________
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paul at nfg

Feb 22, 2009, 3:31 AM

Post #15 of 19 (1514 views)
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Re: Automatically create imap folders [In reply to]

Jorge Bastos wrote:

> And if in a later version, maybe 3.x, DBMail had an integration with openchange?

Never!

--
________________________________________________________________
Paul Stevens paul at nfg.nl
NET FACILITIES GROUP GPG/PGP: 1024D/11F8CD31
The Netherlands________________________________http://www.nfg.nl
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
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https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

mysql.jorge at decimal

Feb 22, 2009, 3:43 AM

Post #16 of 19 (1513 views)
Permalink

RE: Automatically create imap folders [In reply to]

>
> Jorge Bastos wrote:
>
> > And if in a later version, maybe 3.x, DBMail had an integration with
> openchange?
>
> Never!
>

:) was just an idea Paul, don't get mad at me :P

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daniel at gosi

Feb 22, 2009, 4:55 AM

Post #17 of 19 (1515 views)
Permalink

Re: Automatically create imap folders [In reply to]

>>
>> Jorge Bastos wrote:
>>
>>> And if in a later version, maybe 3.x, DBMail had an integration with
>> openchange?
>>
>> Never!
>>
>
> :) was just an idea Paul, don't get mad at me :P
>

Well, I agree that Microsoft Outlook does great with emails and
calendar, but only with their own server implementation.
What I have figured quite a while ago is that Outlook stores its
calendar as "normal" emails within the Exchange server, it is just
displayed in a different way.
So what I always wondered is why nobody ever made an RFC or let�s call
it standard for this. So Thunderbird and other mail clients could do
that the same way and one could have the calendar within IMAP storage
and so accessible from everywhere.
Anyhow, maybe some day ... we will have this and I think this is the
right way and not making some kind of proprietary standard for those
kind of things.
So I totally get why Paul isn�t going to include Open Exchange or
anything like that ...

greetings,
Daniel_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail[at]dbmail.org
https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

michael.monnerie at is

Feb 23, 2009, 11:33 AM

Post #18 of 19 (1497 views)
Permalink

Re: Automatically create imap folders [In reply to]

On Samstag 21 Februar 2009 Aaron Stone wrote:
> And, frankly, Outlook does a very good job at what it does for email
> and calendaring with Exchange server.
>
> Delivering a comprehensive alternative stack that works at least as
> well, and can beat out Outlook on Windows for the business people
> every organization can't get rid of remains an elusive goal.

Right. I did not find a program that is an alternative to Outlook until
now. The problem start when trying to sync with mobile/PDA. I will soon
test OpenXchange, as a customer wants that. Hope it's good.

mfg zmi
--
// Michael Monnerie, Ing.BSc ----- http://it-management.at
// Tel: 0660 / 415 65 31 .network.your.ideas.
// PGP Key: "curl -s http://zmi.at/zmi.asc | gpg --import"
// Fingerprint: AC19 F9D5 36ED CD8A EF38 500E CE14 91F7 1C12 09B4
// Keyserver: wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net Key-ID: 1C1209B4

Attachments:

signature.asc (0.19 KB)

paul at nfg

Feb 24, 2009, 12:10 AM

Post #19 of 19 (1497 views)
Permalink

Re: Automatically create imap folders [In reply to]

Michael Monnerie wrote:
> On Samstag 21 Februar 2009 Aaron Stone wrote:
>> And, frankly, Outlook does a very good job at what it does for email
>> and calendaring with Exchange server.
>>
>> Delivering a comprehensive alternative stack that works at least as
>> well, and can beat out Outlook on Windows for the business people
>> every organization can't get rid of remains an elusive goal.
>
> Right. I did not find a program that is an alternative to Outlook until
> now. The problem start when trying to sync with mobile/PDA. I will soon
> test OpenXchange, as a customer wants that. Hope it's good.

It sucks. It's one of the main reasons I've grown a distinct distaste
for bloated java-stacks that pretend to be opensource. You might take a
look also at zarafa.com. I've had some very good experiences with it.
Yes, it's commercial, but it's painless to install (debs, rpms), has a
very small footprint and comes with excellent support. All of which
cannot be said about openxchange :-(

--
________________________________________________________________
Paul Stevens paul at nfg.nl
NET FACILITIES GROUP GPG/PGP: 1024D/11F8CD31
The Netherlands________________________________http://www.nfg.nl
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail[at]dbmail.org
https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

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