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Local Recipient Verification

  

 
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dbmail at bobich

Apr 28, 2008, 11:31 AM

Post #1 of 23 (628 views)
Permalink
Local Recipient Verification
Hi,

I'm using dbmail with sendmail over lmtp, and from what I can tell,
sendmail is effectively acting as a relay. It receives the mail into the
local queue, and then tries to deliver it over lmtp.

The problem with this is that sendmail will accept all mail restined for
the local domains, regardless of whether the users exist. The
undeliverables will the either backscatter or sit in the queue as
undeliverable until they eventually bounce into the local postmaster's
mailbox.

Is there a workaround for this? Is there a way to make the MTA
check that the recipient exists before accepting the mail?

Thanks.

Gordan
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marc at electronics-design

Apr 28, 2008, 12:27 PM

Post #2 of 23 (613 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
> The problem with this is that sendmail will accept all mail restined for
> the local domains, regardless of whether the users exist. The
> undeliverables will the either backscatter or sit in the queue as
> undeliverable until they eventually bounce into the local postmaster's
> mailbox.
>
> Is there a workaround for this? Is there a way to make the MTA check that
> the recipient exists before accepting the mail?

With sendmail? No!

There is a sendmail-sql plugin somewhere, but it inconvienient.

Your best way, is to get over the sendmail advantages, and start
using postfix.

Marc
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dbmail at bobich

Apr 28, 2008, 3:40 PM

Post #3 of 23 (614 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008, Marc Dirix wrote:

>> The problem with this is that sendmail will accept all mail restined for
>> the local domains, regardless of whether the users exist. The
>> undeliverables will the either backscatter or sit in the queue as
>> undeliverable until they eventually bounce into the local postmaster's
>> mailbox.
>>
>> Is there a workaround for this? Is there a way to make the MTA check that
>> the recipient exists before accepting the mail?
>
> With sendmail? No!

I am aware of being able to specify all the allowed recipients in the
access file as:

To:user[at]domain OK

But I was hoping there is a more direct way. Since dbmail doesn't appear
to have an integrated SMTP daemon. :-/

I suppose I could add an option to the Makefile to rebuild the access file
from the DB. Or possibly just wrap the dbmail-users to dump the ACL
whenever an address is added/removed.

> There is a sendmail-sql plugin somewhere, but it inconvienient.
>
> Your best way, is to get over the sendmail advantages, and start
> using postfix.

Yes, that occured to me, too. I was just hoping to avoid it as my current
sendmail config is simpler and smaller that what I'd inevitable get to if
I switched to postfix...

Gordan
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cww at denterprises

Apr 28, 2008, 3:51 PM

Post #4 of 23 (615 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
Marc Dirix wrote:
> Your best way, is to get over the sendmail advantages, and start
> using postfix.

It's been about eight years since I set up my first mail server, and
I've never heard anyone say sendmail has advantages over postfix. I
have used postfix for every mail server in those eight years.

Please do enlighten me. Off-list is welcome if you're wary of starting
a flame-war. :)

Colin
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michael.monnerie at it-management

Apr 28, 2008, 10:56 PM

Post #5 of 23 (606 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
On Dienstag, 29. April 2008 dbmail[at]bobich.net wrote:
> Yes, that occured to me, too. I was just hoping to avoid it as my
> current sendmail config is simpler and smaller that what I'd
> inevitable get to if I switched to postfix...

I'd suggest switching to postfix, and I will support you if you need
help. After all, postfix config is simpler than that of sendmail. Of
course you are used to it, but I remember sendmail's config being
really horrible and needing m4...
Try it, I can send you my config if you want, and look at
http://www.postfix.org under "documentation", it's really well written.
The postfix users mailing list is of great help also.

mfg zmi
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// Tel: 0676/846 914 666 .network.your.ideas.
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arnt at gulbrandsen

Apr 29, 2008, 6:03 AM

Post #6 of 23 (605 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
Colin Wetherbee writes:
> Marc Dirix wrote:
>> Your best way, is to get over the sendmail advantages, and start
>> using postfix.
>
> It's been about eight years since I set up my first mail server, and
> I've never heard anyone say sendmail has advantages over postfix.

I'll say it. Sendmail has advantages over postfix.

I'll continue to use postfix for incoming mail, but plan to switch to
sendmail for outgoing mail when workload permits. The most important
reason is support for RFC 3461. I expect that support for RFC 2852 will
be a benefit too eventually, but right now none of my sender software
can use it.

Arnt
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cww at denterprises

Apr 29, 2008, 7:01 AM

Post #7 of 23 (605 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote:
> I'll continue to use postfix for incoming mail, but plan to switch to
> sendmail for outgoing mail when workload permits. The most important
> reason is support for RFC 3461. I expect that support for RFC 2852 will
> be a benefit too eventually, but right now none of my sender software
> can use it.

Hmm, Postfix has had support for 3461 since about 2005, in roughly
version 2.3.

2852, no idea. Without reading the entire RFC, which I'm still too
sleepy to grok at the moment, I can't really comment on it. :)

Interesting, though. Thanks for pointing that out.

Colin
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arnt at gulbrandsen

Apr 29, 2008, 7:08 AM

Post #8 of 23 (606 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
Colin Wetherbee writes:
> Hmm, Postfix has had support for 3461 since about 2005, in roughly
> version 2.3.

Oh, fine. Is it complete? Does it pass on the ENVID to the next-hop MTA?

> 2852, no idea. Without reading the entire RFC, which I'm still too
> sleepy to grok at the moment, I can't really comment on it. :)

If you want to send something and tell the MTA "deliver it today or
discard it", 2852 is what you want. 2852 also does other things, that's
just an example.

Arnt
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marc at electronics-design

Apr 29, 2008, 7:16 AM

Post #9 of 23 (606 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 06:51:57PM -0400, Colin Wetherbee wrote:
> Marc Dirix wrote:
>> Your best way, is to get over the sendmail advantages, and start using
>> postfix.
>
> It's been about eight years since I set up my first mail server, and
> I've never heard anyone say sendmail has advantages over postfix. I
> have used postfix for every mail server in those eight years.

It is not going to cause a flame-war I hope.

Sendmails main advantage, is the support for milters. Although
postfix has some milter support, it is not close to sendmail's
implementation, making milters I used to use not-working.

The only drop-in replacement are postfix's after-queue filters, which
has the disadvantage of having already accepted malicient mails.

Also, I think configuration for some more advanced setups are a hassle
in postfix, having to have a main.cf for options, and seperate
master.cf containing option for different connections (I have
multiple smtp setups one 1 server).

Maybe, when sendmailX is done I'll switch back.
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michael.monnerie at it-management

Apr 29, 2008, 2:36 PM

Post #10 of 23 (605 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
On Dienstag, 29. April 2008 Marc Dirix wrote:
> is the support for milters

Seems people use dbmail differently than we do. We have a "dbmail mail
server", which *only* does
- run dbmail-* daemons to connect to the db
- have postfix for incoming e-mail from our mailgate (which does spam
filtering and only sends filtered messages to dbmail)
- allow our authenticated users to send mail to @world.

There's absolutely minimal config in postfix, and this (vmware) machine
needs only a minimal amount of cpu and ram. If you want sendmail
because you prefer it do it on the machine in front, no problem with
that. I prefer having services seperated on different machines, like
spam filtering and e-mail delivery, authentication and pop/imap.

mfg zmi
--
// Michael Monnerie, Ing.BSc ----- http://it-management.at
// Tel: 0676/846 914 666 .network.your.ideas.
// PGP Key: "curl -s http://zmi.at/zmi.asc | gpg --import"
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// Keyserver: www.keyserver.net Key-ID: 1C1209B4
Attachments: signature.asc (0.19 KB)


marc at electronics-design

Apr 29, 2008, 2:45 PM

Post #11 of 23 (605 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
> Seems people use dbmail differently than we do. We have a "dbmail mail
> server", which *only* does
> - run dbmail-* daemons to connect to the db
> - have postfix for incoming e-mail from our mailgate (which does spam


We have a seperate dbmail server for our main setup.

Some smaller setups contain both.

There is however no reason for it to contain yet another postfix /
sendmail install to deliver mail. dbmail-lmtp is all you need at the
dbmail server end.

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dbmail at bobich

Apr 30, 2008, 3:33 AM

Post #12 of 23 (586 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
I decided to have a go at getting postfix to work with this instead of sendmail
as per the suggestion that was made here, and I still have a few
problems. This is probably more of a postfix question rather than dbmail, but
I'm figuring that it would be a common setup with dbmail so someone here might
know the answers.

In /etc/postfix/transport I have:
mytestdomain dbmail-lmtp:localhost:24

I want localhost/myhostname (as set by default from gethostname()) to be
delivered "locally" (i.e. to /var/spool/mail/<username>), but I want
mytestdomain to be delivered via dbmail.

If I set mytestdomain in mydestination, I can deliver to it. Otherwise I just
get relaying denied. Is there a reasonably sane way to have mydestination set
so that the list comes from the dbmail mysql backend while still including
local host names ($myhostname, localhost) for /var/spool/mail delivery?

However, I also have to set, in main.cf
local_recipient_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/sql-recipients.cf

where sql-recipients.cf is the mysql access config file as per the dbmail wiki.
This works fine for dbmail users, but it also causes local recipients to get
rejected (e.g. root[at]myhostname). Is there a way to additionally add local users
to the allowed map?

Thanks.

Gordan
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DBmail[at]dbmail.org
https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail


marc at electronics-design

Apr 30, 2008, 6:13 AM

Post #13 of 23 (586 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
> If I set mytestdomain in mydestination, I can deliver to it. Otherwise I
> just get relaying denied. Is there a reasonably sane way to have
> mydestination set so that the list comes from the dbmail mysql backend
> while still including local host names ($myhostname, localhost) for
> /var/spool/mail delivery?

The config allows to have multiple parameters after eachother. So
you can concatenate $myhostname and a database query.

>
> However, I also have to set, in main.cf
> local_recipient_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/sql-recipients.cf
>
> where sql-recipients.cf is the mysql access config file as per the dbmail
> wiki. This works fine for dbmail users, but it also causes local
> recipients to get rejected (e.g. root[at]myhostname). Is there a way to
> additionally add local users to the allowed map?

Also here, you can add a second hash containing local users.


However, IMHO there is no need for local users, just put them in DBMail
also.
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dbmail at bobich

Apr 30, 2008, 6:21 AM

Post #14 of 23 (586 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, Marc Dirix wrote:

>> If I set mytestdomain in mydestination, I can deliver to it. Otherwise I
>> just get relaying denied. Is there a reasonably sane way to have
>> mydestination set so that the list comes from the dbmail mysql backend
>> while still including local host names ($myhostname, localhost) for
>> /var/spool/mail delivery?
>
> The config allows to have multiple parameters after eachother. So
> you can concatenate $myhostname and a database query.

Right, so something like:
mydestination = localhost, $myhostname, mysql:/etc/postfix/sql-domains.cf
?

>> However, I also have to set, in main.cf
>> local_recipient_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/sql-recipients.cf
>>
>> where sql-recipients.cf is the mysql access config file as per the dbmail
>> wiki. This works fine for dbmail users, but it also causes local
>> recipients to get rejected (e.g. root[at]myhostname). Is there a way to
>> additionally add local users to the allowed map?
>
> Also here, you can add a second hash containing local users.

Except that's not what I want - I want to fall back on the default
behaviour of checking users from /etc/passwd if the local_recipient_maps
fails. Is there a way to do that?

> However, IMHO there is no need for local users, just put them in DBMail
> also.

The local users are mainly for admin accounts to make things easier (e.g.
I'm lazy and don't want to log into imap via a password with pine when I
can just read my mail as root from /var/spool/mail for things like
logwatch reports).

The dbmail handles what are effectively virtual domain/user accounts.

Gordan
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jesse at kci

Apr 30, 2008, 7:28 AM

Post #15 of 23 (585 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 14:21 +0100, dbmail[at]bobich.net wrote:
> > Also here, you can add a second hash containing local users.
>
> Except that's not what I want - I want to fall back on the default
> behaviour of checking users from /etc/passwd if the
> local_recipient_maps
> fails. Is there a way to do that?

That is what you want. You want a local_recipient_maps entry that
checks both your dbmail database (which you apparently have working) and
also checks the password file. The default value is:

$ postconf -d local_recipient_maps
local_recipient_maps = proxy:unix:passwd.byname $alias_maps

So just add in your dbmail value to the default behavior, and you should
be set:

local_recipient_maps = proxy:unix:passwd.byname $alias_maps \
mysql:/etc/postfix/sql-recipients.cf


--
Jesse Norell
Kentec Communications, Inc.
jesse[at]kci.net
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dbmail at bobich

Apr 30, 2008, 8:55 AM

Post #16 of 23 (586 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, Jesse Norell wrote:

>>> Also here, you can add a second hash containing local users.
>>
>> Except that's not what I want - I want to fall back on the default
>> behaviour of checking users from /etc/passwd if the
>> local_recipient_maps
>> fails. Is there a way to do that?
>
> That is what you want. You want a local_recipient_maps entry that
> checks both your dbmail database (which you apparently have working) and
> also checks the password file. The default value is:
>
> $ postconf -d local_recipient_maps
> local_recipient_maps = proxy:unix:passwd.byname $alias_maps
>
> So just add in your dbmail value to the default behavior, and you should
> be set:
>
> local_recipient_maps = proxy:unix:passwd.byname $alias_maps \
> mysql:/etc/postfix/sql-recipients.cf

OK, that seems to work. However, now I'm not getting any deliveries to
dbmail. dbmail user mail bounces after being accepted by postfix for
delivery (so the user retrieval list works for checking purposes). If
there is a user by the same name localy, that will receive the mail
instead of the virtual dbmail user, but a dbmail-only account doesn't seem
to. Instead the mail bounces back as undeliverable with the message that
the user doesn't exist.

I thought specifying <mytestdomain> in /etc/postfix/transport and pointing
that to dbmail's lmtp would suffice. Do I need to change something else as
well, like local_transport?

I tried talking directly to dbmail lmtp on port 24 and that correctly
accepts mail for existing users and rejects for non-existant users. So the
problem must be in the postfix configuration...

Gordan
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jesse at kci

Apr 30, 2008, 9:08 AM

Post #17 of 23 (586 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 16:55 +0100, dbmail[at]bobich.net wrote:
> > local_recipient_maps = proxy:unix:passwd.byname $alias_maps \
> > mysql:/etc/postfix/sql-recipients.cf
>
> OK, that seems to work. However, now I'm not getting any deliveries
> to
> dbmail. dbmail user mail bounces after being accepted by postfix for
> delivery (so the user retrieval list works for checking purposes). If
> there is a user by the same name localy, that will receive the mail
> instead of the virtual dbmail user, but a dbmail-only account doesn't
> seem
> to. Instead the mail bounces back as undeliverable with the message
> that
> the user doesn't exist.
>
> I thought specifying <mytestdomain> in /etc/postfix/transport and
> pointing
> that to dbmail's lmtp would suffice. Do I need to change something
> else as
> well, like local_transport?
>
> I tried talking directly to dbmail lmtp on port 24 and that correctly
> accepts mail for existing users and rejects for non-existant users. So
> the
> problem must be in the postfix configuration...

Do you have transport_maps set (in main.cf) to actually
use /etc/postfix/transport? It doesn't by default. If it does, maybe
the syntax is incorrect or something. That should be all you need it
sounds like.




--
Jesse Norell
Kentec Communications, Inc.
jesse[at]kci.net
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dbmail at bobich

Apr 30, 2008, 10:39 AM

Post #18 of 23 (586 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, Jesse Norell wrote:

>>> local_recipient_maps = proxy:unix:passwd.byname $alias_maps \
>>> mysql:/etc/postfix/sql-recipients.cf
>>
>> OK, that seems to work. However, now I'm not getting any deliveries
>> to
>> dbmail. dbmail user mail bounces after being accepted by postfix for
>> delivery (so the user retrieval list works for checking purposes). If
>> there is a user by the same name localy, that will receive the mail
>> instead of the virtual dbmail user, but a dbmail-only account doesn't
>> seem
>> to. Instead the mail bounces back as undeliverable with the message
>> that the user doesn't exist.
>>
>> I thought specifying <mytestdomain> in /etc/postfix/transport and
>> pointing
>> that to dbmail's lmtp would suffice. Do I need to change something
>> else as well, like local_transport?
>>
>> I tried talking directly to dbmail lmtp on port 24 and that correctly
>> accepts mail for existing users and rejects for non-existant users. So
>> the problem must be in the postfix configuration...
>
> Do you have transport_maps set (in main.cf) to actually
> use /etc/postfix/transport? It doesn't by default. If it does, maybe
> the syntax is incorrect or something. That should be all you need it
> sounds like.

D'oh! Absolutely right, I didn't have transport_maps setting. :-/

But now I seem to have an issue that seems actually related to
dbmail-lmtp:

Mail was bouncing and I was getting this in the logs:
Host or domain name not found. Name service error for name=localhost ty
pe=A: Host not found

I found a solution mentioned in a mailing list archive:
lmtp -o disable_dns_lookups=yes
in master.cf. This fixes it, but I'm at a loss as to why this was
happening in the first place. I have a DNS server that resolves
localhost., localhost.localdomain and both are in the hosts file. It also
resolves correctly with dig, nslookup and host. What could be causing this
problem?

Thanks.

Gordan
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jesse at kci

Apr 30, 2008, 10:49 AM

Post #19 of 23 (586 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
Tis a good question ... I don't know what causes it offhand, if the
resolver otherwise seems to work. It sounds familiar, though .. it
seems like you generally use 127.0.0.1 rather than "localhost" for
whatever the reason is.


On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 18:39 +0100, dbmail[at]bobich.net wrote:
>
> But now I seem to have an issue that seems actually related to
> dbmail-lmtp:
>
> Mail was bouncing and I was getting this in the logs:
> Host or domain name not found. Name service error for name=localhost
> ty
> pe=A: Host not found
>
> I found a solution mentioned in a mailing list archive:
> lmtp -o disable_dns_lookups=yes
> in master.cf. This fixes it, but I'm at a loss as to why this was
> happening in the first place. I have a DNS server that resolves
> localhost., localhost.localdomain and both are in the hosts file. It
> also
> resolves correctly with dig, nslookup and host. What could be causing
> this
> problem?
--
Jesse Norell
Kentec Communications, Inc.
jesse[at]kci.net
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ahodgson at simkin

Apr 30, 2008, 11:07 AM

Post #20 of 23 (586 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
On Wednesday 30 April 2008, Jesse Norell <jesse[at]kci.net> wrote:
> Tis a good question ... I don't know what causes it offhand, if the
> resolver otherwise seems to work. It sounds familiar, though .. it
> seems like you generally use 127.0.0.1 rather than "localhost" for
> whatever the reason is.
>

If the lmtp process is running chroot it may be using different hosts and
resolv.conf files than normal system processes.

--
Alan
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dbmail at bobich

Apr 30, 2008, 12:01 PM

Post #21 of 23 (586 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, Alan Hodgson wrote:

>> Tis a good question ... I don't know what causes it offhand, if the
>> resolver otherwise seems to work. It sounds familiar, though .. it
>> seems like you generally use 127.0.0.1 rather than "localhost" for
>> whatever the reason is.
>>
>
> If the lmtp process is running chroot it may be using different hosts and
> resolv.conf files than normal system processes.

It doesn't seem to be running chroot (note the 5th field is "n"):
dbmail-lmtp unix - - n - - lmtp -o disable_dns_lookups=yes

Any other ideas?

Gordan
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jiipee at sotapeli

Apr 30, 2008, 12:27 PM

Post #22 of 23 (567 views)
Permalink
RE: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
I believe you mean dis-adventages :P



> Your best way, is to get over the sendmail advantages, and
> start using postfix.
>
> Marc
> _______________________________________________
> DBmail mailing list
> DBmail[at]dbmail.org
> https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
>
>

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johnml at gufonero

May 2, 2008, 10:57 AM

Post #23 of 23 (540 views)
Permalink
Re: Local Recipient Verification [In reply to]
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

dbmail[at]bobich.net wrote:
| On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, Alan Hodgson wrote:
|
|>> Tis a good question ... I don't know what causes it offhand, if the
|>> resolver otherwise seems to work. It sounds familiar, though .. it
|>> seems like you generally use 127.0.0.1 rather than "localhost" for
|>> whatever the reason is.
|>>
|>
|> If the lmtp process is running chroot it may be using different hosts and
|> resolv.conf files than normal system processes.
|
| It doesn't seem to be running chroot (note the 5th field is "n"):
| dbmail-lmtp unix - - n - - lmtp -o disable_dns_lookups=yes
|
| Any other ideas?
|

Postfix by default uses dns via system library calls, what
that returns will depend on resolv.conf. The behaviour
of dig is not always representative of what the system
libraries would return (for example dig does not use
the search list of resolv.conf by default).

disble_dns_lookups changes that behaviour and postfix uses
getaddrinfo() which should also look in /etc/hosts,
depending on the setting of /etc/nsswitch.conf or
equivalent on your system.

Postfix also has a parameter (from version 2.3)
lmtp_host_lookup, which defaults to dns but can be
set to native (to use nsswitch) or to dns, native.

see
http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#lmtp_host_lookup
http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#smtp_host_lookup

John


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