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Apr 20, 2010, 11:10 PM


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Re: (no subject) [In reply to]

On Tue, 2010-04-20 at 20:34 -0700, Jim Preston wrote:
> Well, prosecution would be justified if ClamAV had actually done
> something illegal.

They did. Releasing 'code' that they new had a potential to harm or
interfere with the operation of systems. It's a clearly defined CRIMINAL
offence in my part of the world. I suspect that this state of affairs is
also true in the USA if the case of Gary McKinnon is used as a point of
reference. Perhaps, Jim, you would like to offer the name and address of
the person pushing this code out if it does not bother you at all? I'm
sure there are a few pissed people in the UK and Europe who would like
to even the score up on behalf of Gary McKinnon.

It is also clearly a case of blackmail. 'If you don't do this, I will
break that' - again, that is a criminal offence in most parts of the
civilised world. (I do accept that this may have been the work of
*Americans* who may have lower moral and ethical standards than the rest
of the world).

The correct thing to do would be to warn users of older versions that no
update was possible, leaving it running. Not to deliberately and
purposely crash it, and anything that depends on it. The mechanism
clearly exists to do that, no??:

WARNING: Your ClamAV installation is OUTDATED!
WARNING: Local version: 0.94.2 Recommended version: 0.96

It was notable to see the difficulty people had trying to update. Try
googling this: 'update clamav', first hit:
http://www.clamav.net/lang/en/
Now, from that link, try and find instructions on *how* to upgrade. It's
pretty appalling to find the info needed. It's fair to say You've had a
number of months to make sure that good, easy to find information is
easy to find in order to match the carnage you knew it would create for
some people. Sure, there is an email support list, but when clam has
crashed your mail server, that's about as much use as a chocolate tea
pot.

But in all of this ding dong something else rather amazing strikes me.
In a world of over 6 billion people there was not much noise made about
this in real terms, which may suggest just how insignificant CLAM is as
a project - this rather amuses me given the clear intent of breaking
systems was, in my view, more sinister. I hold the opinion that it was,
in part, an attempt to get people to notice CLAM and how they depend on
it, and in reality only a handful of people in this big wide world even
noticed it. It did not even make news anywhere. In fact, all it has done
is piss off a few people who may well stop using it - after all, it's
mostly only protecting windows machines at the gateway, and it does such
a poor job of it they all tend to rely on local AV anyway. Save the
clock cycles and future hassle and ditch it being plausible advice.


I'm sure the big players like Trend & Barracuda who sell CLAM in their
own products were not hurt by this spiteful, malicious and wicked act.
Nor was I. I guess they are used to issues with CLAM having to make
daily apologies for all the stuff it misses, let alone this little
moment in it's history. The people who probably suffered were just a
chunk of small businesses struggling to make ends meet, tiny clinics in
the middle of Africa hanging off a dial-up, or other groups with not
much money or time. I'm sure they really needed the hassle of this on
top of everything else. I do hope your mother would be very proud of
you :-)

_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml

Subject User Time
(no subject) lobredor at telered Aug 1, 2003, 11:55 AM
    RE: (no subject) njh at bandsman Sep 23, 2003, 2:06 PM
        RE: (no subject) newsgroup at auratia Sep 24, 2003, 5:43 AM
    Re: (no subject) njh at bandsman Sep 24, 2003, 8:42 AM
        Re: (no subject) newsgroup at auratia Sep 24, 2003, 11:30 AM
    Re: (no subject) njh at bandsman Sep 24, 2003, 11:40 AM
        Re: (no subject) newsgroup at auratia Sep 24, 2003, 11:53 AM
    Re: (no subject) tk at lodz Feb 10, 2004, 5:08 AM
    RE: (no subject) njh at bandsman Feb 26, 2004, 3:44 PM
        RE: (no subject) scott.deacon at sympatico Feb 26, 2004, 7:28 PM
    Re: (no subject) Antony at Soft-Solutions Aug 12, 2004, 3:29 AM
        Re: Mail-ClamAV installed virus junkmail at phoenix-blaze Aug 12, 2004, 7:07 AM
            Re: Mail-ClamAV installed virus trog at uncon Aug 12, 2004, 7:18 AM
    Re: (no subject) niek at packetstorm Sep 7, 2004, 9:07 AM
        Re: (no subject) niek at packetstorm Sep 7, 2004, 10:09 AM
    RE: (no subject) sdimoff at usnetworksinc Oct 5, 2004, 6:17 AM
    Re: (no subject) njh at bandsman Oct 5, 2004, 6:17 AM
    Re: (no subject) njh at bandsman Oct 5, 2004, 6:22 AM
        Re: (no subject) sasab at pixteam Oct 5, 2004, 6:28 AM
        RE: (no subject) bclark at eccotours Oct 5, 2004, 6:33 AM
    Re: (no subject) njh at bandsman Oct 5, 2004, 6:30 AM
    Re: (no subject) math at mlists Oct 5, 2004, 7:21 AM
        RE: (no subject) bclark at eccotours Oct 5, 2004, 7:43 AM
    Re: (no subject) Jose-Marcio.Martins at ensmp Oct 5, 2004, 7:41 AM
    Re: (no subject) shane.wise at nashvilleweather Oct 5, 2004, 7:52 AM
        Re: (no subject) math at mlists Oct 5, 2004, 8:07 AM
            Re: (no subject) shane.wise at nashvilleweather Oct 5, 2004, 8:27 AM
                Re: (no subject) njh at bandsman Oct 5, 2004, 8:42 AM
                Re: (no subject) njh at bandsman Oct 5, 2004, 8:51 AM
    Re: (no subject) math at mlists Oct 5, 2004, 8:11 AM
    Re: (no subject) clamav-users at plumlee Feb 25, 2005, 7:24 AM
        Re: (no subject) tkojm at clamav Feb 25, 2005, 7:30 AM
            Re: (no subject) clamav-users at plumlee Feb 25, 2005, 9:16 AM
        Re: (no subject) bdm at fenrir Feb 25, 2005, 8:06 AM
            Re: (no subject) clamav-users at plumlee Feb 25, 2005, 9:47 AM
    RE: (no subject) daniel at goitrain Feb 25, 2005, 11:43 AM
    RE: (no subject) daniel at goitrain Feb 25, 2005, 6:48 PM
    RE: (no subject) dennispe at inetnw Feb 25, 2005, 10:58 PM
        RE: Clueless Newbies [was: (no subject)] dan.mcdonald at austinenergy Feb 28, 2005, 5:09 AM
            RE: Clueless Newbies [was: (no subject)] evan at pierce Feb 28, 2005, 5:46 AM
            RE: Clueless Newbies [was: (no subject)] dennispe at inetnw Feb 28, 2005, 8:36 AM
                RE: Clueless Newbies [was: (no subject)] dennispe at inetnw Feb 28, 2005, 8:43 AM
                    Re: Clueless Newbies [was: (no subject)] betsy.schwartz at gmail Feb 28, 2005, 11:30 AM
                        Re: Clueless Newbies [was: (no subject)] mattf at bauchan Mar 1, 2005, 5:52 AM
                            Re: Clueless Newbies [was: (no subject)] dennispe at inetnw Mar 1, 2005, 6:23 AM
    Re: (no subject) clamav-users at plumlee Feb 26, 2005, 7:28 AM
    Re: (no subject) mattf at bauchan May 17, 2005, 2:50 PM
    Re: (no subject) dennispe at inetnw May 17, 2005, 3:02 PM
    Re: (no subject) bdm at fenrir Oct 9, 2005, 6:50 AM
        Re: (no subject) webmaster at kf6plh Oct 9, 2005, 9:45 AM
    Re: (no subject) bdm at fenrir Oct 9, 2005, 3:17 PM
    Re: (no subject) jmaul at elih Jul 26, 2006, 10:35 AM
    Re: (no subject) cswiger at mac Jul 26, 2006, 10:37 AM
    Re: (no subject) DStaal at usa Jul 26, 2006, 10:46 AM
    Re: (no subject) fedora at drussell Jul 26, 2006, 10:48 AM
    Re: (no subject) oboltus at bigmir Oct 23, 2007, 12:30 AM
        Re: (no subject) rob.macgregor at gmail Oct 23, 2007, 1:13 AM
    Re: (no subject) oboltus at bigmir Oct 23, 2007, 4:18 AM
        Re: (no subject) rob.macgregor at gmail Oct 23, 2007, 5:00 AM
    Re: (no subject) edwintorok at gmail Apr 16, 2010, 12:37 AM
        Re: (no subject) steve at greengecko Apr 16, 2010, 12:54 AM
            Re: (no subject) spiro at knossos Apr 18, 2010, 1:27 PM
                Re: (no subject) bitfuzzy at campbus Apr 18, 2010, 1:40 PM
                    Re: (no subject) jimlinux at commspeed Apr 18, 2010, 2:03 PM
                        Re: (no subject) bitfuzzy at campbus Apr 18, 2010, 2:39 PM
                            Re: (no subject) jimlinux at commspeed Apr 18, 2010, 2:45 PM
                Re: (no subject) dennispe at inetnw Apr 18, 2010, 1:43 PM
                Re: (no subject) steve.wray at cwa Apr 20, 2010, 7:36 PM
                    Re: (no subject) Jason.Haar at trimble Apr 20, 2010, 8:19 PM
                    Re: (no subject) jimlinux at commspeed Apr 20, 2010, 8:24 PM
                        Re: (no subject) steve.wray at cwa Apr 20, 2010, 8:31 PM
                            Re: (no subject) jimlinux at commspeed Apr 20, 2010, 8:34 PM
                                Re: (no subject) lists at retrochoons Apr 20, 2010, 11:10 PM
                                    Re: (no subject) mslucas at taos-it Apr 20, 2010, 11:27 PM
                            Re: (no subject) jimlinux at commspeed Apr 20, 2010, 8:38 PM
                                Re: (no subject) francesco at fampeeters Apr 20, 2010, 11:00 PM
                        Re: (no subject) mslucas at taos-it Apr 20, 2010, 11:20 PM
                    Re: (no subject) dave-usenet at djwcomputers Apr 20, 2010, 11:24 PM
                    Re: (no subject) linux at thehobsons Apr 21, 2010, 12:15 AM
                        Re: (no subject) clamav.user at seibercom Apr 21, 2010, 2:30 AM
                            Re: (no subject) tbb at hideout Apr 21, 2010, 2:38 AM
                                Re: (no subject) R.Sterenborg at netsourcing Apr 21, 2010, 3:18 AM
                                Re: (no subject) steveb_clamav at sanesecurity Apr 21, 2010, 3:30 AM
                            Re: (no subject) linux at thehobsons Apr 21, 2010, 8:45 AM
                                Re: (no subject) rostetter at mail Apr 21, 2010, 9:41 AM
                                    Re: (no subject) linux at thehobsons Apr 21, 2010, 11:08 AM
                                Re: (no subject) jimlinux at commspeed Apr 21, 2010, 2:11 PM
                        Re: illegal or not, make a valid argument (was "no subject") rostetter at mail Apr 21, 2010, 9:16 AM
                            Re: illegal or not, make a valid argument (was "no subject") chris at westnet Apr 21, 2010, 9:26 AM
                                Re: illegal or not, make a valid argument (was "no subject") rob.macgregor at gmail Apr 21, 2010, 9:45 AM
                                Re: illegal or not, make a valid argument (was "no subject") bill at inetmsg Apr 21, 2010, 10:45 AM
                            Re: illegal or not, make a valid argument (was "no subject") chris at westnet Apr 21, 2010, 10:48 AM
                                Re: illegal or not, make a valid argument (was "no subject") bill at inetmsg Apr 21, 2010, 10:56 AM
                            Re: illegal or not, make a valid argument (was "no subject") jonnykent at gmail Apr 21, 2010, 10:51 AM
                            Re: illegal or not, make a valid argument (was "no subject") chris at westnet Apr 21, 2010, 11:08 AM
                                Re: illegal or not, make a valid argument (was "no subject") bill at inetmsg Apr 21, 2010, 11:13 AM
                            Re: illegal or not, make a valid argument (was "no subject") rostetter at mail Apr 21, 2010, 11:15 AM
                            Re: illegal or not, make a valid argument (was "no subject") chris at westnet Apr 21, 2010, 11:30 AM
                            Re: illegal or not, make a valid argument (was "no subject") linux at thehobsons Apr 21, 2010, 11:44 AM
                                Re: illegal or not, make a valid argument (was "no subject") jimlinux at commspeed Apr 21, 2010, 4:25 PM
                                Re: illegal or not, make a valid argument (was "no subject") dave-usenet at djwcomputers Apr 21, 2010, 6:22 PM
                        Re: (no subject) jimlinux at commspeed Apr 21, 2010, 1:53 PM
                        Re: (no subject) boheme at gmail Apr 21, 2010, 6:02 PM
                    Re: (no subject) spiro at knossos Apr 21, 2010, 12:50 PM
                        Re: (no subject) steve.wray at cwa Apr 21, 2010, 1:19 PM
                            Re: (no subject) spiro at knossos Apr 21, 2010, 1:36 PM
                                Re: (no subject) steve.wray at cwa Apr 21, 2010, 1:44 PM
                            Re: (no subject) chris at westnet Apr 21, 2010, 1:39 PM
                                Re: (no subject) bonivart at opencsw Apr 21, 2010, 1:46 PM
                            Re: (no subject) bitfuzzy at campbus Apr 21, 2010, 2:03 PM
                            Re: (no subject) jimlinux at commspeed Apr 21, 2010, 4:43 PM
    Re: (no subject) tkojm at clamav Apr 16, 2010, 2:07 AM
    Re: (no subject) clamav-users at uchange Apr 16, 2010, 2:09 AM
        Re: (no subject) linux at thehobsons Apr 16, 2010, 3:59 AM
            Re: (no subject) spiro at knossos Apr 18, 2010, 1:38 PM
                Re: (no subject) linux at thehobsons Apr 18, 2010, 3:26 PM
                    Re: (no subject) jimlinux at commspeed Apr 19, 2010, 9:22 AM
                        Re: (no subject) linux at thehobsons Apr 19, 2010, 11:14 AM
                        Re: (no subject) dennispe at inetnw Apr 19, 2010, 5:28 PM
                            Re: (no subject) linux at thehobsons Apr 19, 2010, 11:48 PM
                            Re: (no subject) bernd at petrovitsch Apr 20, 2010, 1:45 AM
    Re: (no subject) tkojm at clamav Apr 16, 2010, 2:32 AM
    Re: (no subject) edwintorok at gmail Apr 16, 2010, 3:22 AM
        Re: (no subject) leolistas at solutti Apr 16, 2010, 5:15 AM
            Re: (no subject) francis.stevens at bristow Apr 16, 2010, 6:10 AM
        Re: (no subject) jobst at barrett May 2, 2010, 10:24 PM
    Re: (no subject) lists at retrochoons Apr 20, 2010, 11:35 PM
        Re: (no subject) mort at chalmers Apr 21, 2010, 1:20 AM
            Re: (no subject) linux at thehobsons Apr 21, 2010, 2:26 AM
        Re: (no subject) jimlinux at commspeed Apr 21, 2010, 6:54 AM
        Re: Clubbing a deceased equine chris at westnet Apr 21, 2010, 7:50 AM
            Re: Clubbing a deceased equine linux at thehobsons Apr 21, 2010, 8:28 AM
            Re: Clubbing a deceased equine eray.aslan at caf Apr 21, 2010, 9:04 AM
                Re: Clubbing a deceased equine chris at westnet Apr 21, 2010, 9:12 AM
                    Re: Clubbing a deceased equine linux at thehobsons Apr 21, 2010, 9:27 AM
                        Re: Clubbing a deceased equine chris at westnet Apr 21, 2010, 11:53 AM
                            Re: Clubbing a deceased equine steveb_clamav at sanesecurity Apr 21, 2010, 1:19 PM
                                Re: Clubbing a deceased equine clamav at clubneon Apr 21, 2010, 1:26 PM
                        Re: Clubbing a deceased equine rostetter at mail Apr 21, 2010, 12:12 PM
                            Re: Clubbing a deceased equine linux at thehobsons Apr 21, 2010, 12:34 PM
                                Re: Clubbing a deceased equine cswiger at mac Apr 21, 2010, 12:49 PM
                                Re: Clubbing a deceased equine rostetter at mail Apr 21, 2010, 12:56 PM
                                    Re: Clubbing a deceased equine eray.aslan at caf Apr 21, 2010, 1:23 PM
                        Re: Clubbing a deceased equine chupacerveza at gmail Apr 21, 2010, 6:55 PM
                            Re: Clubbing a deceased equine steve.wray at cwa Apr 21, 2010, 8:03 PM
                                Re: Clubbing a deceased equine dennispe at inetnw Apr 21, 2010, 8:20 PM
                                    Re: Clubbing a deceased equine dennispe at inetnw Apr 21, 2010, 8:24 PM
                                    Re: Clubbing a deceased equine conrad at enetworks Apr 21, 2010, 8:44 PM
                                    Re: Clubbing a deceased equine eray.aslan at caf Apr 21, 2010, 11:39 PM
                                        Re: Clubbing a deceased equine jimlinux at commspeed Apr 22, 2010, 7:18 AM
                                    Re: Clubbing a deceased equine linux at thehobsons Apr 22, 2010, 1:39 AM
                                Re: Clubbing a deceased equine jarif at iki Apr 21, 2010, 9:10 PM
                Re: Clubbing a deceased equine chupacerveza at gmail Apr 21, 2010, 2:48 PM
                    Re: Clubbing a deceased equine jimlinux at commspeed Apr 21, 2010, 4:58 PM
                        Re: Clubbing a deceased equine steve.wray at cwa Apr 21, 2010, 5:42 PM
                            Re: Clubbing a deceased equine jimlinux at commspeed Apr 21, 2010, 6:08 PM
                                Re: Clubbing a deceased equine steve.wray at cwa Apr 21, 2010, 6:19 PM
                                    Re: Clubbing a deceased equine jimlinux at commspeed Apr 21, 2010, 6:21 PM
            Re: Clubbing a deceased equine eray.aslan at caf Apr 21, 2010, 10:50 PM
        Re: (no subject) rostetter at mail Apr 21, 2010, 8:59 AM
    Re: (no subject) skraw at ithnet Apr 21, 2010, 1:29 AM
    Re: (no subject) steve.wray at cwa Apr 21, 2010, 1:51 PM
        Re: (no subject) spiro at knossos Apr 21, 2010, 2:07 PM
            Re: (no subject) steve.wray at cwa Apr 21, 2010, 2:09 PM
                Re: (no subject) jimlinux at commspeed Apr 21, 2010, 4:56 PM
            Re: (no subject) steve at greengecko Apr 21, 2010, 2:51 PM
                Re: (no subject) jimlinux at commspeed Apr 21, 2010, 5:00 PM
                    Re: (no subject) steve at greengecko Apr 21, 2010, 5:08 PM
                        Re: (no subject) jimlinux at commspeed Apr 21, 2010, 6:04 PM
                            Re: (no subject) rostetter at mail Apr 21, 2010, 10:06 PM
                                Re: (no subject) dennispe at inetnw Apr 21, 2010, 10:08 PM
                Re: (no subject) rostetter at mail Apr 21, 2010, 8:59 PM
        Re: (no subject) jimlinux at commspeed Apr 21, 2010, 4:52 PM
    Re: (no subject) jimlinux at commspeed Apr 21, 2010, 6:09 PM
    Re: (no subject) alvarnell at mac Nov 8, 2010, 2:39 PM
    Re: (no subject) edwin+ml-clamav at etorok Mar 3, 2012, 7:16 AM
        Re: (no subject) jayzon915 at gmail Mar 3, 2012, 7:28 AM
    Re: (no subject) jesler at sourcefire May 11, 2012, 10:40 AM
    Re: (no subject) alvarnell at mac Oct 17, 2012, 12:28 AM
    Re: (no subject) StEwert at c-onServices Oct 17, 2012, 5:28 AM
    Re: (no subject) azidouemba at sourcefire Oct 17, 2012, 6:16 AM

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