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How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V?

 

 

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diilbert.atlantis at gmail

Nov 24, 2009, 12:17 PM

Post #1 of 25 (3226 views)
Permalink
How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V?

Hello!

I am administering 7 Debian based LAMP servers and am working to get
anti-virus to scan uploads as they happen. Since I am a lone sheep in
the Microsoft wild of a larger organization I need to prove that Clam
is up for the task and at least at par with commercial A/V such as
McAfee Commandline Scanner.

I have found a few articles stating that Clam is in some cases
superior to most of the commercial counterparts.

I am looking for feedback and thoughts on this so I can bring my case
to the powers that we do not need to dish out $$ to provide virus
protection.

Thanks!

--
Robin
_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


mohnkern at gmail

Nov 24, 2009, 12:27 PM

Post #2 of 25 (3155 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

In our particular environment (a government server farm), we were asked to
deploy the Mcafee virus scanning tools for Linux. After several months of
frustration, we concluded given our particular configuration (A very large
Storage Area Network) that McAfee would never meet our needs.

We tested and deployed clamav across 63 machines with over 24 terabytes of
network storage and have found that it fits our needs extremely well. We
don't do "on the fly" scanning, but do scanning on a cycling basis per
machine, to avoid overtaxing our network.


Scott Mohnkern



On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Robin <diilbert.atlantis [at] gmail> wrote:

> Hello!
>
> I am administering 7 Debian based LAMP servers and am working to get
> anti-virus to scan uploads as they happen. Since I am a lone sheep in
> the Microsoft wild of a larger organization I need to prove that Clam
> is up for the task and at least at par with commercial A/V such as
> McAfee Commandline Scanner.
>
> I have found a few articles stating that Clam is in some cases
> superior to most of the commercial counterparts.
>
> I am looking for feedback and thoughts on this so I can bring my case
> to the powers that we do not need to dish out $$ to provide virus
> protection.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Robin
> _______________________________________________
> Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
> http://www.clamav.net/support/ml
>
_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


diilbert.atlantis at gmail

Dec 3, 2009, 4:46 AM

Post #3 of 25 (3116 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

Your feedback was much appreciated and will definitely be using this
example to build my case.

Regard,
Robin

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Scott Mohnkern <mohnkern [at] gmail> wrote:
> In our particular environment (a government server farm), we were asked to
> deploy the Mcafee virus scanning tools for Linux.  After several months of
> frustration, we concluded given our particular configuration (A very large
> Storage Area Network) that McAfee would never meet our needs.
>
> We tested and deployed clamav across 63 machines with over 24 terabytes of
> network storage and have found that it fits our needs extremely well.   We
> don't do "on the fly" scanning, but do scanning on a cycling basis per
> machine, to avoid overtaxing our network.
>
>
> Scott Mohnkern
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Robin <diilbert.atlantis [at] gmail> wrote:
>
>> Hello!
>>
>> I am administering 7 Debian based LAMP servers and am working to get
>> anti-virus to scan uploads as they happen.  Since I am a lone sheep in
>> the Microsoft wild of a larger organization I need to prove that Clam
>> is up for the task and at least at par with commercial A/V such as
>> McAfee Commandline Scanner.
>>
>> I have found a few articles stating that Clam is in some cases
>> superior to most of the commercial counterparts.
>>
>> I am looking for feedback and thoughts on this so I can bring my case
>> to the powers that we do not need to dish out $$ to provide virus
>> protection.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Robin
>> _______________________________________________
>> Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
>> http://www.clamav.net/support/ml
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
> http://www.clamav.net/support/ml
>



--
Robin
robin.hills [at] gmail
_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


mator at team

Dec 3, 2009, 4:50 AM

Post #4 of 25 (3113 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

Someone with linkedin account, could be interested in commenting the
following discussion
http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&discussionID=10222162&gid=107486

On 24.11.2009 / 15:27:44 -0500, Scott Mohnkern wrote:
> In our particular environment (a government server farm), we were asked to
> deploy the Mcafee virus scanning tools for Linux. After several months of
> frustration, we concluded given our particular configuration (A very large
> Storage Area Network) that McAfee would never meet our needs.
>
> We tested and deployed clamav across 63 machines with over 24 terabytes of
> network storage and have found that it fits our needs extremely well. We
> don't do "on the fly" scanning, but do scanning on a cycling basis per
> machine, to avoid overtaxing our network.
>
_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


tshaw at oitc

Dec 3, 2009, 5:10 AM

Post #5 of 25 (3118 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

At 3:50 PM +0300 12/3/09, Anatoly Pugachev wrote:
>Someone with linkedin account, could be interested in commenting the
>following discussion
>http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&discussionID=10222162&gid=107486
>

Anatoly

Whats the group's name?

Tom
_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


mator at team

Dec 3, 2009, 5:18 AM

Post #6 of 25 (3119 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

Tom,

I'm sorry, it's "IT Core Infrastructure" group, mentioned discusstion
topic is "Wanted to get a feel of what people are using for an
Enterprise Anti-virus solution in an environment with over 200
computers. We've used Symantec AV for 5 years now." opened by Robert
Tana.

Thanks.

On 03.12.2009 / 08:10:30 -0500, Tom Shaw wrote:
> At 3:50 PM +0300 12/3/09, Anatoly Pugachev wrote:
> >Someone with linkedin account, could be interested in commenting the
> >following discussion
> >http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&discussionID=10222162&gid=107486
> >
>
> Anatoly
>
> Whats the group's name?
>
> Tom
_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


tshaw at oitc

Dec 3, 2009, 5:23 AM

Post #7 of 25 (3113 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

Thanks! I am "awaiting approval"

At 4:18 PM +0300 12/3/09, Anatoly Pugachev wrote:
>Tom,
>
>I'm sorry, it's "IT Core Infrastructure" group, mentioned discusstion
>topic is "Wanted to get a feel of what people are using for an
>Enterprise Anti-virus solution in an environment with over 200
>computers. We've used Symantec AV for 5 years now." opened by Robert
>Tana.
>
>Thanks.
>
>On 03.12.2009 / 08:10:30 -0500, Tom Shaw wrote:
>> At 3:50 PM +0300 12/3/09, Anatoly Pugachev wrote:
>> >Someone with linkedin account, could be interested in commenting the
>> >following discussion
>> >http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&discussionID=10222162&gid=107486
>> >
>>
>> Anatoly
>>
>> Whats the group's name?
>>
>> Tom


--
Tom Shaw - Chief Engineer, OITC
<tshaw at oitc.com>, http://www.oitc.com/ local wx: http://www.oitc.com/weather
US Phone Numbers: 321-984-3714, 321-729-6258(fax), 321-258-2475
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AIM/iChat: trshaw [at] mac
Skype: trshaw

Fish more and Live longer
To err is human. To purr, feline
_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


johnpc at xs4all

Dec 3, 2009, 6:04 AM

Post #8 of 25 (3122 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 04:17:50PM -0400, Robin wrote:
> I am administering 7 Debian based LAMP servers and am working to get
> anti-virus to scan uploads as they happen. Since I am a lone sheep in
> the Microsoft wild of a larger organization I need to prove that Clam
> is up for the task and at least at par with commercial A/V such as
> McAfee Commandline Scanner.
>
> I have found a few articles stating that Clam is in some cases
> superior to most of the commercial counterparts.
>
> I am looking for feedback and thoughts on this so I can bring my case
> to the powers that we do not need to dish out $$ to provide virus
> protection.

Your responses are likely to be biased by asking clamav-users :)

So let me give a slightly more negative argument. ClamAV used to be
quite fast in responding to virus threats, but is currently pretty slow
in response to email viruses. We use ClamAV only to scan email on an
SMTP server(farm) (approx 3E7 msgs/day).

We run 3 virus scanners, and I get daily statistics on the number of
viruses catched by each scanner, detailing exactly which viruses were
found by which scanner.

For at least half a year, clamav has been the slowest to respond to new
threats, usually taking at least a day, sometimes two days, to catch up.
The number of viruses that ClamAV finds that the others don't, is
negligible (a handful a day, and those are usually marked as spam
anyway).

That said, we only use the standard databases, and we disabled phishing
heuristics (too much false positives). Scanning accuracy might improve
if you add other malware databases. But I don't want to spend too much
CPU and memory on ClamAV.

Note that this isn't a complaint - I realise I get what I pay for, but
given that admin time isn't free either, ClamAV is definately worse than
commercial AV products, even if you consider performance/price ratio.

Be aware that YMMV.

--
Jan-Pieter Cornet <johnpc [at] xs4all>
!! Disclamer: The addressee of this email is not the intended recipient. !!
!! This is only a test of the echelon and data retention systems. Please !!
!! archive this message indefinitely to allow verification of the logs. !!
_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


tshaw at oitc

Dec 3, 2009, 6:34 AM

Post #9 of 25 (3112 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

At 3:04 PM +0100 12/3/09, Jan Pieter Cornet wrote:
>On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 04:17:50PM -0400, Robin wrote:
>> I am administering 7 Debian based LAMP servers and am working to get
>> anti-virus to scan uploads as they happen. Since I am a lone sheep in
>> the Microsoft wild of a larger organization I need to prove that Clam
>> is up for the task and at least at par with commercial A/V such as
>> McAfee Commandline Scanner.
>>
>> I have found a few articles stating that Clam is in some cases
>> superior to most of the commercial counterparts.
>>
>> I am looking for feedback and thoughts on this so I can bring my case
>> to the powers that we do not need to dish out $$ to provide virus
>> protection.
>
>Your responses are likely to be biased by asking clamav-users :)
>
>So let me give a slightly more negative argument. ClamAV used to be
>quite fast in responding to virus threats, but is currently pretty slow
>in response to email viruses. We use ClamAV only to scan email on an
>SMTP server(farm) (approx 3E7 msgs/day).
>
>We run 3 virus scanners, and I get daily statistics on the number of
>viruses catched by each scanner, detailing exactly which viruses were
>found by which scanner.
>
>For at least half a year, clamav has been the slowest to respond to new
>threats, usually taking at least a day, sometimes two days, to catch up.
>The number of viruses that ClamAV finds that the others don't, is
>negligible (a handful a day, and those are usually marked as spam
>anyway).
>
>That said, we only use the standard databases, and we disabled phishing
>heuristics (too much false positives). Scanning accuracy might improve
>if you add other malware databases. But I don't want to spend too much
>CPU and memory on ClamAV.
>
>Note that this isn't a complaint - I realise I get what I pay for, but
>given that admin time isn't free either, ClamAV is definately worse than
>commercial AV products, even if you consider performance/price ratio.
>
>Be aware that YMMV.

Jan-Pieter,

I would suggest that a selected group of unofficial signature files
can dramatically improve performance without causing too much CPU and
memory usage.

For example, these third party signatures detected the recent zeus
outbreaks (not to mention the google jobs, IRS and others) in one
case before any other AV vendor and usually the same time as 2-3.

Just my 2cents,

Tom

_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


diilbert.atlantis at gmail

Dec 3, 2009, 6:10 PM

Post #10 of 25 (3110 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

Jan Pieter: Thanks for balancing out the arguments!

I have been trying to convince the upper end folks to accept clamav so
I was looking for some good use cases compared to McAfee CommandLine
Scanner, since this would be the product I would use from the
corporate standard of McAfee.

Since I will be using the scanner on-demand I tested it scanning a
simple file and it was 10x slower than ClamAV. I am not really
concerned about email viruses as I will be scanning document formats
(odt, docx, doc, etc). The speed is another argument that I am trying
to put forward as well.

Regards,
Robin

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Jan Pieter Cornet <johnpc [at] xs4all> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 04:17:50PM -0400, Robin wrote:
>> I am administering 7 Debian based LAMP servers and am working to get
>> anti-virus to scan uploads as they happen.  Since I am a lone sheep in
>> the Microsoft wild of a larger organization I need to prove that Clam
>> is up for the task and at least at par with commercial A/V such as
>> McAfee Commandline Scanner.
>>
>> I have found a few articles stating that Clam is in some cases
>> superior to most of the commercial counterparts.
>>
>> I am looking for feedback and thoughts on this so I can bring my case
>> to the powers that we do not need to dish out $$ to provide virus
>> protection.
>
> Your responses are likely to be biased by asking clamav-users :)
>
> So let me give a slightly more negative argument. ClamAV used to be
> quite fast in responding to virus threats, but is currently pretty slow
> in response to email viruses. We use ClamAV only to scan email on an
> SMTP server(farm) (approx 3E7 msgs/day).
>
> We run 3 virus scanners, and I get daily statistics on the number of
> viruses catched by each scanner, detailing exactly which viruses were
> found by which scanner.
>
> For at least half a year, clamav has been the slowest to respond to new
> threats, usually taking at least a day, sometimes two days, to catch up.
> The number of viruses that ClamAV finds that the others don't, is
> negligible (a handful a day, and those are usually marked as spam
> anyway).
>
> That said, we only use the standard databases, and we disabled phishing
> heuristics (too much false positives). Scanning accuracy might improve
> if you add other malware databases. But I don't want to spend too much
> CPU and memory on ClamAV.
>
> Note that this isn't a complaint - I realise I get what I pay for, but
> given that admin time isn't free either, ClamAV is definately worse than
> commercial AV products, even if you consider performance/price ratio.
>
> Be aware that YMMV.
>
> --
> Jan-Pieter Cornet <johnpc [at] xs4all>
> !! Disclamer: The addressee of this email is not the intended recipient. !!
> !! This is only a test of the echelon and data retention systems. Please !!
> !! archive this message indefinitely to allow verification of the logs.  !!
> _______________________________________________
> Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
> http://www.clamav.net/support/ml
>



--
Robin
robin.hills [at] gmail
_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


dennispe at inetnw

Dec 3, 2009, 7:32 PM

Post #11 of 25 (3103 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

Robin wrote:
> Jan Pieter: Thanks for balancing out the arguments!
>
> I have been trying to convince the upper end folks to accept clamav so
> I was looking for some good use cases compared to McAfee CommandLine
> Scanner, since this would be the product I would use from the
> corporate standard of McAfee.
>
> Since I will be using the scanner on-demand I tested it scanning a
> simple file and it was 10x slower than ClamAV. I am not really
> concerned about email viruses as I will be scanning document formats
> (odt, docx, doc, etc). The speed is another argument that I am trying
> to put forward as well.
>
> Regards,
> Robin
>

http://www.barracudanetworks.com/ns/legal/

It's so good that TrendMicro thought it worth going to court to stop it.

I used ClamAV for years on a very large commercial web site. We had less than
1000 employees and about 1M messages/week at that time. We scanned all messages
coming and going in real time. We used Jose-Martins da Cruz's excellent
J-Chkmail milter in a 3-way cluster of Sun servers. The milter provided the
interface to Sendmail and ClamAV as well as providing excellent greylisting with
a central greylist server/database, regex filtering, behavior controls, URLBL
integration, and much more.

We were dropping 90% of all incoming messages for spam, viruses, etc. They've
since gone with MessageLabs mail services. I don't work there any longer but I
understand spam got much worse after moving away from an in-house solution.

Having bloviated about all that, we got far more hits using SaneSecurity
signatures than ClamAV sigs. My own small server still reflects that ratio.
Here's some quick scans of found viruses.

$ awk '/FOUND/ {print $(NF-1)}' clamd.log[0-4] |sort |wc -l
637
$ awk '/FOUND/ {print $(NF-1)}' clamd.log[0-4 |sort -u |wc -l
73
$ awk '/FOUND/ {print $(NF-1)}' clamd.log[0-4] |sort -u |grep -c Sanesecur
43
$ awk '/FOUND/ {print $(NF-1)}' clamd.log[0-4] |sort -u |grep -c -v Sanesecur
30
$ awk '/UNOFFICIAL/ {print $(NF-1)}' clamd* |sort -u |wc -l
69

637 "viruses" found
73 unique signatures
43 signatures from SaneSecurity
30 signatures from all other sources
69 of 73 signatures were "UNOFFICIAL"

Out of what, half a million signatures, total? But of course next month it will
be a different set of unique signatures.

I quoted viruses above because much of what is found is actually blacklisted
URL's, scams, spam, etc. Very few true viruses show up anymore.

dp
_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


thomas-lists at nybeta

Dec 3, 2009, 8:37 PM

Post #12 of 25 (3104 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

On 12/3/2009 10:32 PM, Dennis Peterson wrote:
>
> I quoted viruses above because much of what is found is actually
> blacklisted URL's, scams, spam, etc. Very few true viruses show up anymore.
>

That seems to be true if you're doing DNSBLs that block the dynamic
address ranges. I see a steady trickle of true viruses (well, trojans)
constantly hitting ClamAV. But when you look closely at the host names,
I'd bet that nearly all of them would be blocked by some sort of dynamic
DNSBL.

(We're not currently using a DNSBL at SMTP time.)

It would probably be a lot worse for us, except that we don't accept
hostnames that aren't valid, aren't FQDNs, and don't resolve back to a
DNS A or MX record. Out of all of our SMTP time rejects, the FQDN check
is responsible for over half. There's a lot of bots out there that just
use a 6-10 random letter host identifier that can't get past the FQDN test.
_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


dennispe at inetnw

Dec 3, 2009, 9:36 PM

Post #13 of 25 (3103 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

Thomas Harold wrote:
> On 12/3/2009 10:32 PM, Dennis Peterson wrote:
>>
>> I quoted viruses above because much of what is found is actually
>> blacklisted URL's, scams, spam, etc. Very few true viruses show up
>> anymore.
>>
>
> That seems to be true if you're doing DNSBLs that block the dynamic
> address ranges. I see a steady trickle of true viruses (well, trojans)
> constantly hitting ClamAV. But when you look closely at the host names,
> I'd bet that nearly all of them would be blocked by some sort of dynamic
> DNSBL.

True - and it's cheaper than scanning for viruses, in terms of system usage.
I've focused on defeating the bastids before scanning with scanning as a last
resort. Any sources of viruses get added to my DNSBL or URLBL bind tables.

>
> (We're not currently using a DNSBL at SMTP time.)
>
> It would probably be a lot worse for us, except that we don't accept
> hostnames that aren't valid, aren't FQDNs, and don't resolve back to a
> DNS A or MX record. Out of all of our SMTP time rejects, the FQDN check
> is responsible for over half. There's a lot of bots out there that just
> use a 6-10 random letter host identifier that can't get past the FQDN test.

Ditto here, too. I'm just handling mail for my home and a small hosting and mail
list business I run now but you'd think I was defending fortress Earth with all
the blocking tools that are in place.

dp
_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


lists at retrochoons

Dec 3, 2009, 11:56 PM

Post #14 of 25 (3102 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

On Thu, 2009-12-03 at 19:32 -0800, Dennis Peterson wrote:
> Robin wrote:
> > Jan Pieter: Thanks for balancing out the arguments!
> >
> > I have been trying to convince the upper end folks to accept clamav so
> > I was looking for some good use cases compared to McAfee CommandLine
> > Scanner, since this would be the product I would use from the
> > corporate standard of McAfee.
> >
> > Since I will be using the scanner on-demand I tested it scanning a
> > simple file and it was 10x slower than ClamAV. I am not really
> > concerned about email viruses as I will be scanning document formats
> > (odt, docx, doc, etc). The speed is another argument that I am trying
> > to put forward as well.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Robin
> >
>
> http://www.barracudanetworks.com/ns/legal/
>
> It's so good that TrendMicro thought it worth going to court to stop it.

It is good - and thanks to Dennis for pointing it out. The Barracuda
link is synonymous with the fact that they stole it, bundled it into a
crappy little Mandrake Linux low end PC and sell it *as* a commercial
product. Chuck in some extra rules that look suspiciously similar to
Sane's and your cooking on gas.

Mind you where Barracuda are concerned it's important to take other
peoples work, defend that stance and give very little back. Especially
when your own developers can't code something like Perl without
producing a shed load of errors, and your best programmer only has solid
real life experience working with the Commodore Amiga.

Clam is a brilliant and flexible engine and it stands up very well - so
much so that other companies are happy to *sell* it to you :-)



_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


ged at jubileegroup

Dec 4, 2009, 5:18 AM

Post #15 of 25 (3094 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

Hi there,

On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 Robin wrote:

> example to build my case.

Although I see nothing like the volume of mail that some others here
have to cope with I'd echo the comments from Messrs Cornet, Peterson
and Shaw. I'd add (as it might not already be obvious to your senior
management:) that there isn't one single 'solution' to their concerns.
There must be a mix of techniques implemented, and they can't all be
technical fixes. For example, it is at least as important to educate
your users (*) as it is to protect their inboxes from trash.

You might also mention that at least one ClamAV user (me) doesn't care
a hoot how good ClamAV is at spotting viruses. The reasoning is this:

1. Windows is not installed on any of my computers; effectively they
are immune from viruses most of the time. Of course if unprotected
they can still be at risk from other kinds of attack.

2. Computer users are anything but immune from scams, phishing etc.
Only yesterday, one nitwit here sent an old hoax about Christmas cards
which he'd received on his home mail account to 'everyone@'. A couple
of years ago (*) he also sent about a thousand dollars to some con man
in Romania - you'd have thought he'd have learned by now.

Well, back to the topic. On my mailservers, genuine messages number
less than two hundred per day. But they see something like 10,000 to
20,000 attempts to send unwanted junk per day. That includes viruses,
phishing, you name it. Of those attempts, the number that get as far
as establishing a connection to the mailservers is in the hundreds per
day because about 60,000 ip ranges are blocked by the firewall rules.
Two-thirds of these connections are blocked by trivial things like the
Sendmail greetpause, a multi-line greeting; some simple regex scanning
of the first parts of the SMTP conversation (CONNECT, HELO, MAIL FROM,
and RCPT TO) which by and large spambots can't get right; greylisting;
and a few DNSBL lists. That leaves ClamAV and MIMDefang/SpamAssassin
with very little to do, and so far in December they haven't blocked
anything in my installations. In four years, out of something like
twenty million attempts, they've had to block less than 1000 messages.

FWIW the Jurlbl database is responsible for about two-thirds of what
is stopped by ClamAV here at the moment, but obviously this is based
on a very small sample and I've no idea how representative it is.

Finally, [OT] don't let email divert all your attention from the other
ways that criminals have developed to abuse computers. Even if you're
using clamd to scan incoming mail, HTTP responses, and the users' home
directories, a machine can still be compromised by some script kiddy.
Enforce strong passwords. Get a copy of 'nmap', and do some proactive
scanning of your own networks. Close ports that don't need to be open.
Encrypt client-server connections (such as mail) which might carry any
sensitive information (such as passwords). It's a jungle out there.

--

73,
Ged.
_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
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Bowie_Bailey at BUC

Dec 4, 2009, 7:22 AM

Post #16 of 25 (3094 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

Dennis Peterson wrote:
>
> $ awk '/FOUND/ {print $(NF-1)}' clamd.log[0-4] |sort |wc -l
> 637
> $ awk '/FOUND/ {print $(NF-1)}' clamd.log[.0-4 |sort -u |wc -l
> 73
> $ awk '/FOUND/ {print $(NF-1)}' clamd.log[0-4] |sort -u |grep -c
> Sanesecur
> 43
> $ awk '/FOUND/ {print $(NF-1)}' clamd.log[0-4] |sort -u |grep -c -v
> Sanesecur
> 30
> $ awk '/UNOFFICIAL/ {print $(NF-1)}' clamd* |sort -u |wc -l
> 69
>
> 637 "viruses" found
> 73 unique signatures
> 43 signatures from SaneSecurity
> 30 signatures from all other sources
> 69 of 73 signatures were "UNOFFICIAL"

Interesting stats. My system shows the same thing, but even more extreme:

4090 "viruses" found
785 unique signatures
759 signatures from SaneSecurity
26 signatures from all other sources
768 of 785 signatures were "UNOFFICIAL"

--
Bowie
_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


dennispe at inetnw

Dec 4, 2009, 8:31 AM

Post #17 of 25 (3094 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

lists wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-12-03 at 19:32 -0800, Dennis Peterson wrote:

>> http://www.barracudanetworks.com/ns/legal/
>>
>> It's so good that TrendMicro thought it worth going to court to stop it.
>
> It is good - and thanks to Dennis for pointing it out. The Barracuda
> link is synonymous with the fact that they stole it, bundled it into a
> crappy little Mandrake Linux low end PC and sell it *as* a commercial
> product. Chuck in some extra rules that look suspiciously similar to
> Sane's and your cooking on gas.

I wonder how it's possible to steal an open source product. Did they also steal
Linux, too? Shoot me a copy of the definition of "steal" as mine seems to have
not survived into the digital age. I believe that by your definition we're all a
bunch of thieves. Doubly so for me since my Mac server has a BSD derivative and
Clamav built in.

dp
_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


lists at retrochoons

Dec 4, 2009, 9:03 AM

Post #18 of 25 (3094 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

On Fri, 2009-12-04 at 08:31 -0800, Dennis Peterson wrote:
> lists wrote:
> > On Thu, 2009-12-03 at 19:32 -0800, Dennis Peterson wrote:
>
> >> http://www.barracudanetworks.com/ns/legal/
> >>
> >> It's so good that TrendMicro thought it worth going to court to stop it.
> >
> > It is good - and thanks to Dennis for pointing it out. The Barracuda
> > link is synonymous with the fact that they stole it, bundled it into a
> > crappy little Mandrake Linux low end PC and sell it *as* a commercial
> > product. Chuck in some extra rules that look suspiciously similar to
> > Sane's and your cooking on gas.
>
> I wonder how it's possible to steal an open source product. Did they also steal
> Linux, too? Shoot me a copy of the definition of "steal" as mine seems to have
> not survived into the digital age. I believe that by your definition we're all a
> bunch of thieves. Doubly so for me since my Mac server has a BSD derivative and
> Clamav built in.
No, just Barracuda. It's not just the Clam and Linux. There is the
Postfix, Amavis-New, OpenLDAP, Apache, SpamAssassin, Squid, LVS to name
but a few. Open Source as you point out, but morally bankrupt - but what
do you expect from a company owned by a spammer and staffed by chimps?

Particularly diststful is the selling of other peoples work and rules as
part of an 'energize update' package - but this is a clam list and this
is all OT, but knowing who you are Dennis and why you jumped out to
shout about Barracuda's stance on someone else trying to stop cuda
selling Open Source, it was reasonable to point it out.


>
> dp
> _______________________________________________
> Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
> http://www.clamav.net/support/ml

_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


dennispe at inetnw

Dec 4, 2009, 9:11 AM

Post #19 of 25 (3090 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

lists wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-12-04 at 08:31 -0800, Dennis Peterson wrote:
>> lists wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2009-12-03 at 19:32 -0800, Dennis Peterson wrote:
>>>> http://www.barracudanetworks.com/ns/legal/
>>>>
>>>> It's so good that TrendMicro thought it worth going to court to stop it.
>>> It is good - and thanks to Dennis for pointing it out. The Barracuda
>>> link is synonymous with the fact that they stole it, bundled it into a
>>> crappy little Mandrake Linux low end PC and sell it *as* a commercial
>>> product. Chuck in some extra rules that look suspiciously similar to
>>> Sane's and your cooking on gas.
>> I wonder how it's possible to steal an open source product. Did they also steal
>> Linux, too? Shoot me a copy of the definition of "steal" as mine seems to have
>> not survived into the digital age. I believe that by your definition we're all a
>> bunch of thieves. Doubly so for me since my Mac server has a BSD derivative and
>> Clamav built in.
> No, just Barracuda.

So the people selling VMware spam appliances are not thieves, then? I guess I
wonder why the victims remain so quiet on the subject.

Maybe we should all be using this: http://tinfoilhat.shmoo.com/

dp
_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


lists at retrochoons

Dec 4, 2009, 9:35 AM

Post #20 of 25 (3090 views)
Permalink
Re: How does Clam stand up to Commercial A/V? [In reply to]

On Fri, 2009-12-04 at 09:11 -0800, Dennis Peterson wrote:
> lists wrote:
> > On Fri, 2009-12-04 at 08:31 -0800, Dennis Peterson wrote:
> >> lists wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 2009-12-03 at 19:32 -0800, Dennis Peterson wrote:
> >>>> http://www.barracudanetworks.com/ns/legal/
> >>>>
> >>>> It's so good that TrendMicro thought it worth going to court to stop it.
> >>> It is good - and thanks to Dennis for pointing it out. The Barracuda
> >>> link is synonymous with the fact that they stole it, bundled it into a
> >>> crappy little Mandrake Linux low end PC and sell it *as* a commercial
> >>> product. Chuck in some extra rules that look suspiciously similar to
> >>> Sane's and your cooking on gas.
> >> I wonder how it's possible to steal an open source product. Did they also steal
> >> Linux, too? Shoot me a copy of the definition of "steal" as mine seems to have
> >> not survived into the digital age. I believe that by your definition we're all a
> >> bunch of thieves. Doubly so for me since my Mac server has a BSD derivative and
> >> Clamav built in.
> > No, just Barracuda.
>
> So the people selling VMware spam appliances are not thieves, then? I guess I
> wonder why the victims remain so quiet on the subject.
Yes - they are Dennis, but your remarks related to Barracuda is if they
were some kind of 'rights fighter' for OS, which is ironic given they
make their living selling it, cobbled together with weak glue scripts. I
put it to you they were more concerned with having to pay for, or
licence, an AV engine which would have eaten at Perone & Drako's profit
$$$. For a man that flies his staff around on Airmiles, I can see that
sticking in his throat, and hence the motivation.

This continues, however, to be OT for Clam so should we call it quits
here, or find somewhere else to fight and set the world to rights?

_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


lists at retrochoons

Dec 5, 2009, 3:52 AM

Post #21 of 25 (3047 views)
Permalink
Re: OT Dennis - Barracuda - this is how cheap they are... [In reply to]

Dennis, to give you some idea (if you did not already know) how cheap
Barracuda Networks are, they advertise for staff on Craigslist - because
it is free:

http://london.craigslist.co.uk/tch/1494768419.html


About Barracuda Networks Inc.

Barracuda Networks Inc. is the worldwide leader in email and Web
security appliances. Barracuda Networks also provides world-class IM
protection, application server load balancing, Web application security,
and message archiving appliances. Coca-Cola, FedEx, Harvard University,
IBM, L'Oreal, and Europcar, are amongst the 70,000 organizations
protecting their networks with Barracuda Networks' solutions. Barracuda
Networks' success is due to its ability to deliver easy to use,
comprehensive solutions that solve the most serious issues facing
customer networks without unnecessary add-ons, maintenance, lengthy
installations or per user license fees. Barracuda Networks is privately
held with its headquarters in Campbell, Calif. Barracuda Networks has
offices in eight international locations and distributors in more than
80 countries worldwide. For more information, please visit
www.barracuda.com.

Technical Support

We are looking for experienced technical support staff who can work
independently and deliver great customer service. This person will work
closely with the engineering department to support customers and help
them troubleshoot network and email problems in a Linux environment.
Must be willing to dedicate themselves to learning the product.

Experience Required:
Strong technical understanding of one or more of the following protocols
is required:

•SMTP
•HTTP/HTTP Proxy
•SSL
•SMB

Additional Skills/Requirements:

•Technical support experience
•Understands LDAP
•Independently motivated
•Understands Linux OS, configuration, and email protocols
•Understands Firewalls
•Desires to fight spam

We have several positions available.

For immediate consideration please send CV to jobs [at] barracuda Please
place TECH SUPPORT UK in th subject line.

_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


dennispe at inetnw

Dec 5, 2009, 8:45 AM

Post #22 of 25 (3044 views)
Permalink
Re: OT Dennis - Barracuda - this is how cheap they are... [In reply to]

lists wrote:
> Dennis, to give you some idea (if you did not already know) how cheap
> Barracuda Networks are, they advertise for staff on Craigslist - because
> it is free:
>

I am truly stunned you are so wound around Barracuda. I don't give a rip one way
or the other about them and I've not even discussed them in this thread. I used
them as an example of a company that believed ClamAV was a commercial class
product. I don't care if they are cheap bastids, I don't care about their air
travel policies, and I also don't care about any of the things you are obviously
distracted to insanity about.

I repeat - I did not discuss Barracuda here, you did. I discussed your use of
the work "steal". It is my opinion you've confused "steal" with "violated the
terms of the EULA". That might even be true - but if they did it is not my
concern and I have no interest.

I don't disagree or agree with your statements regarding Barracuda because I
don't care. It is not my fight. Don't waste your time and this list's members'
time iterating to me each and every perceived offense Barracuda has, will, and
contemplates dropping on the world. I don't care.

I am Barracuda-neutral. I will remain Barracuda neutral. I cannot be budged from
my neutrality by anything you say. If you present photos of Barracuda employees
feeding on pea soup from the skull caps of dead babies it will not matter a
whit. I don't care.

I trust that while you appear confused about many things you are no longer
confused about me and Barracuda.

Now that you've thoroughly hijacked this thread to force-feed your rant on us
all, take the time to apologize and let it drop. Why? You know the answer: I
don't care!

dp

_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


lists at retrochoons

Dec 5, 2009, 10:02 AM

Post #23 of 25 (3041 views)
Permalink
Re: OT Dennis - Barracuda - this is how cheap they are... [In reply to]

On Sat, 2009-12-05 at 08:45 -0800, Dennis Peterson wrote:
> lists wrote:
Don't get your knickers in a twist love ;-)

_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


dennispe at inetnw

Dec 5, 2009, 10:07 AM

Post #24 of 25 (3040 views)
Permalink
Re: OT Dennis - Barracuda - this is how cheap they are... [In reply to]

lists wrote:
> On Sat, 2009-12-05 at 08:45 -0800, Dennis Peterson wrote:
>> lists wrote:
> Don't get your knickers in a twist love ;-)

Wasn't much of an apology, but I accept it, none the less.

dp
_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml


lists at retrochoons

Dec 5, 2009, 10:14 AM

Post #25 of 25 (3042 views)
Permalink
Re: OT Dennis - Barracuda - this is how cheap they are... [In reply to]

On Sat, 2009-12-05 at 10:07 -0800, Dennis Peterson wrote:
> lists wrote:
> > On Sat, 2009-12-05 at 08:45 -0800, Dennis Peterson wrote:
> >> lists wrote:
> > Don't get your knickers in a twist love ;-)
>
> Wasn't much of an apology.

No, that's because there was not one in order. But I accept yours for
mentioning the dirty B word in the first instance and trust you won't do
it again.

_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
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