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Signature DB docs and signing server

 

 

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sherpya at netfarm

Nov 17, 2006, 5:54 PM

Post #1 of 3 (1004 views)
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Signature DB docs and signing server

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Hi all,

Since I'm working on a win32 memory scanner that scans on disk loaded modules
and using an heuristic + entropy that detects (or tries to :P) packed executables
dumps pe from memory, I would try using custom signatures.
I would report that clamav upx unpacker can be fooled by changing 1 byte,
just adding some other value than 0 in the zero sized section
Also the memory pe dumper can be considered as "almost" universal unpacker
(yes I known some packers are very smart and will fool a normal memory dump,
but at least it will be more efficient than having a small list of unpackers)

The problem is that docs about sigs are a bit incomplete.

My guessing (and/or using signatures.pdf) is:

.fp are false positive (easily guessed)
.info it's an info file about sig files
.hdb are md5 + size (sigtool --md5)
.zmd password protected zip files, I don't known about the format
.nbd well documented regexp-like signature
.db the main signature archive also there no clue

and finally signing .cvd with sigtool needs a signing server
and no docs about it, it's possible to have the server or known how to do it,
off course I don't want the clamav private key.

With additional docs I may improve signatures.pdf file

Regards

- --
Gianluigi Tiesi <sherpya [at] netfarm>
EDP Project Leader
Netfarm S.r.l. - http://www.netfarm.it/
Free Software: http://oss.netfarm.it/

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_______________________________________________
http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-devel.html


acabng at digitalfuture

Nov 18, 2006, 6:17 AM

Post #2 of 3 (914 views)
Permalink
Re: Signature DB docs and signing server [In reply to]

Will you ever stop making a fool of yourself?

Facts:
1) You cannot type an email address correctly
2) You failed to find the updated signatures.pdf (hint: it's well hidden
in CVSROOT/docs/signatures.pdf) which would have answered all your sig
related questions.
3) You didn't understand that reporting how to bypass an antivirus, on a
public mailing list is not very responsible, expecially considering that
you "produce" and AV toolkit as well and someone may do the same to you
one day.
4) You build an AV without bothering writing signatures for it or not
even checking malware trends. If you would have done that you'd probably
know that unpacking is not rocket science but rather a best effort
approach (hacked UPX is more popular than plain UPX, did you know?).
Additionally, you'd know that the crappy and easily bypassed UPX code is
worth 5-10% detection in your ClamWin.
Having said that (since you seem unaware of that), the good way to act
is opening a bug report and providing a patch to make UPX handling more
robust. Since up to day you failed to do that, you can well kiss my arse.
5) LOL, I really felt on the floor at this one. You want to implement a
generic unpacker which *executes* malicious code in order to dump it
from memory!
Do you feel smart? Don't you wonder why all other windows AV's invest
money and resources into writing emulators (or even sandboxes)? They
must be all crazy don't they? All you have to do is dumping and
rebuilding à la procdump, right?
If you were old enough and if you knew what you were doing you'd
probably recall about someone else, back in the dos age, who was feeling
very smart. And you'd also remember about a virus which was only
spreading when scanned by the smart guy's AV.

May Eugene protect your users,
-aCaB
_______________________________________________
http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-devel.html


sherpya at netfarm

Nov 18, 2006, 9:13 AM

Post #3 of 3 (915 views)
Permalink
Re: Signature DB docs and signing server [In reply to]

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aCaB wrote:
> Will you ever stop making a fool of yourself?
>
> Facts:
> 1) You cannot type an email address correctly
uh what do you mean?

> 2) You failed to find the updated signatures.pdf (hint: it's well hidden
> in CVSROOT/docs/signatures.pdf) which would have answered all your sig
> related questions.
still incomplete (i.e. the signing server?)

> 3) You didn't understand that reporting how to bypass an antivirus, on a
> public mailing list is not very responsible, expecially considering that
> you "produce" and AV toolkit as well and someone may do the same to you
> one day.
I don't "produce" an av toolkit I'm only adding some stuff on a win32
port of clamav, I just made an example about upx unpacker flaw I don't
think I cannot talk about it in the ml.

> 4) You build an AV without bothering writing signatures for it or not
> even checking malware trends. If you would have done that you'd probably
> know that unpacking is not rocket science but rather a best effort
> approach (hacked UPX is more popular than plain UPX, did you know?).
> Additionally, you'd know that the crappy and easily bypassed UPX code is
> worth 5-10% detection in your ClamWin.
I don't build an AV, and my ClamWin (it's not mine) is only a GUI
for clamav port so the main code comes directly from clamav.

> Having said that (since you seem unaware of that), the good way to act
> is opening a bug report and providing a patch to make UPX handling more
> robust. Since up to day you failed to do that, you can well kiss my arse.
I really don't feel to send bug/fixes/patches here since as also expected
in this email I get always ignored.

> 5) LOL, I really felt on the floor at this one. You want to implement a
> generic unpacker which *executes* malicious code in order to dump it
> from memory!
> Do you feel smart? Don't you wonder why all other windows AV's invest
> money and resources into writing emulators (or even sandboxes)? They
> must be all crazy don't they? All you have to do is dumping and
> rebuilding à la procdump, right?
smart? I'm not reinventing the wheel, m$ added WriteProcessMemory to do this,
really I'm not doing anything uncommon or *smart*, also you misunderstood me
I don't want to __run__ malware I would "benefit" from the fact the malware is
already loaded in memory.


> If you were old enough and if you knew what you were doing you'd
> probably recall about someone else, back in the dos age, who was feeling
> very smart. And you'd also remember about a virus which was only
> spreading when scanned by the smart guy's AV.
>

I was searching for cooperation not to be offended...
if my work is not appreciated here... never mind...
I hope it will be useful to someone else...

Regards

- --
Gianluigi Tiesi <sherpya [at] netfarm>
EDP Project Leader
Netfarm S.r.l. - http://www.netfarm.it/
Free Software: http://oss.netfarm.it/

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_______________________________________________
http://lurker.clamav.net/list/clamav-devel.html

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