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DIDs / ELINs for use in CER ?

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d4rkf1ber at gmail

Aug 30, 2007, 9:37 AM

Post #1 of 6 (201 views)
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DIDs / ELINs for use in CER ?

I am getting a bit confused about something regarding the use of DIDs in CER.

The documents basically state that you need to get some DID's from the
service provider for each ERL you plan to define, these DID's will be
used as ELINs to both identify the location and for the PSAP to return
the call if need be.

So a 911 call is placed, and once things are setup CER will basically
do or have CM do a translation of the users extension to one of these
DIDs you specify so that the service provider will know what PSAP
that call needs to get routed to and so the PSAP will have a number to
call back on and such.

All sounds fine and dandy I guess.

However, my experience (which isn't much) has led me to think that
usually when dealing with DID ranges from a service provider that on
911 calls the service provider does not usually pass the DID of the
phone to the PSAP but rather the billing number which is usually the
first number of the range I thought?

This isn't a problem as far as passing the location, but it would be a
problem for a return call from the PSAP. CER would be looking for a
call coming into one number which would be mapped to the phone which
called 911, however if the billing number was passed to the PSAP thats
the number that would be called back.

Hopefully I am just blanking on something here and this is not the case.

Can anyone enlighten me on what I am missing here? Thanks!
_______________________________________________
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https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip

jason.aarons at us

Aug 30, 2007, 9:42 AM

Post #2 of 6 (178 views)
Permalink

Re: DIDs / ELINs for use in CER ? [In reply to]

You call the telco and ask them to stop sending the main billing number
for calls where you provide calling party number.

-----Original Message-----
From: cisco-voip-bounces[at]puck.nether.net
[mailto:cisco-voip-bounces[at]puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Dark Fiber
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 12:38 PM
To: cisco-voip[at]puck.nether.net
Subject: [cisco-voip] DIDs / ELINs for use in CER ?

I am getting a bit confused about something regarding the use of DIDs in
CER.

The documents basically state that you need to get some DID's from the
service provider for each ERL you plan to define, these DID's will be
used as ELINs to both identify the location and for the PSAP to return
the call if need be.

So a 911 call is placed, and once things are setup CER will basically
do or have CM do a translation of the users extension to one of these
DIDs you specify so that the service provider will know what PSAP
that call needs to get routed to and so the PSAP will have a number to
call back on and such.

All sounds fine and dandy I guess.

However, my experience (which isn't much) has led me to think that
usually when dealing with DID ranges from a service provider that on
911 calls the service provider does not usually pass the DID of the
phone to the PSAP but rather the billing number which is usually the
first number of the range I thought?

This isn't a problem as far as passing the location, but it would be a
problem for a return call from the PSAP. CER would be looking for a
call coming into one number which would be mapped to the phone which
called 911, however if the billing number was passed to the PSAP thats
the number that would be called back.

Hopefully I am just blanking on something here and this is not the case.

Can anyone enlighten me on what I am missing here? Thanks!
_______________________________________________
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https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip

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tednugent69 at yahoo

Aug 30, 2007, 10:10 AM

Post #3 of 6 (178 views)
Permalink

Re: DIDs / ELINs for use in CER ? [In reply to]

If the provider is sending the BTN to the PSAP they
need to fix that, that’s NOT how it’s supposed to
work. However you are right 90% of the installs that
I've have done have run into this problem but its
usually resolved with a call to the provider telling
them to honor the calling number sent to them.

And actually it would be a problem with passing
location info especially if you were working in a
multi-building or multisite environment because your
ERLs and ELINS are tied together in the PSAP ALI DB.
If the BTN is being sent as opposed to the actual ELIN
then emergency personnel would always be sent to the
bill to address even if the ERL is in another building
2 blocks over on the second floor. So you absolutely
need to get that fixed for CER to work correctly.

--- Dark Fiber <d4rkf1ber[at]gmail.com> wrote:

> I am getting a bit confused about something
> regarding the use of DIDs in CER.
>
> The documents basically state that you need to get
> some DID's from the
> service provider for each ERL you plan to define,
> these DID's will be
> used as ELINs to both identify the location and for
> the PSAP to return
> the call if need be.
>
> So a 911 call is placed, and once things are setup
> CER will basically
> do or have CM do a translation of the users
> extension to one of these
> DIDs you specify so that the service provider will
> know what PSAP
> that call needs to get routed to and so the PSAP
> will have a number to
> call back on and such.
>
> All sounds fine and dandy I guess.
>
> However, my experience (which isn't much) has led me
> to think that
> usually when dealing with DID ranges from a service
> provider that on
> 911 calls the service provider does not usually pass
> the DID of the
> phone to the PSAP but rather the billing number
> which is usually the
> first number of the range I thought?
>
> This isn't a problem as far as passing the location,
> but it would be a
> problem for a return call from the PSAP. CER would
> be looking for a
> call coming into one number which would be mapped to
> the phone which
> called 911, however if the billing number was passed
> to the PSAP thats
> the number that would be called back.
>
> Hopefully I am just blanking on something here and
> this is not the case.
>
> Can anyone enlighten me on what I am missing here?
> Thanks!
> _______________________________________________
> cisco-voip mailing list
> cisco-voip[at]puck.nether.net
> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
_______________________________________________
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svoll.voip at gmail

Aug 30, 2007, 11:42 AM

Post #4 of 6 (181 views)
Permalink

Re: DIDs / ELINs for use in CER ? [In reply to]

Good to know because I've dealt with the same issues.

I just thought I had to add the PS-ALI / PSAP contract to get it fixed.
Guess I'll work on that.

Thanks

Scott

On 8/30/07, Ted Nugent <tednugent69[at]yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> If the provider is sending the BTN to the PSAP they
> need to fix that, that's NOT how it's supposed to
> work. However you are right 90% of the installs that
> I've have done have run into this problem but its
> usually resolved with a call to the provider telling
> them to honor the calling number sent to them.
>
> And actually it would be a problem with passing
> location info especially if you were working in a
> multi-building or multisite environment because your
> ERLs and ELINS are tied together in the PSAP ALI DB.
> If the BTN is being sent as opposed to the actual ELIN
> then emergency personnel would always be sent to the
> bill to address even if the ERL is in another building
> 2 blocks over on the second floor. So you absolutely
> need to get that fixed for CER to work correctly.
>
>
> --- Dark Fiber <d4rkf1ber[at]gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I am getting a bit confused about something
> > regarding the use of DIDs in CER.
> >
> > The documents basically state that you need to get
> > some DID's from the
> > service provider for each ERL you plan to define,
> > these DID's will be
> > used as ELINs to both identify the location and for
> > the PSAP to return
> > the call if need be.
> >
> > So a 911 call is placed, and once things are setup
> > CER will basically
> > do or have CM do a translation of the users
> > extension to one of these
> > DIDs you specify so that the service provider will
> > know what PSAP
> > that call needs to get routed to and so the PSAP
> > will have a number to
> > call back on and such.
> >
> > All sounds fine and dandy I guess.
> >
> > However, my experience (which isn't much) has led me
> > to think that
> > usually when dealing with DID ranges from a service
> > provider that on
> > 911 calls the service provider does not usually pass
> > the DID of the
> > phone to the PSAP but rather the billing number
> > which is usually the
> > first number of the range I thought?
> >
> > This isn't a problem as far as passing the location,
> > but it would be a
> > problem for a return call from the PSAP. CER would
> > be looking for a
> > call coming into one number which would be mapped to
> > the phone which
> > called 911, however if the billing number was passed
> > to the PSAP thats
> > the number that would be called back.
> >
> > Hopefully I am just blanking on something here and
> > this is not the case.
> >
> > Can anyone enlighten me on what I am missing here?
> > Thanks!
> > _______________________________________________
> > cisco-voip mailing list
> > cisco-voip[at]puck.nether.net
> > https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car
> Finder tool.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
> _______________________________________________
> cisco-voip mailing list
> cisco-voip[at]puck.nether.net
> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip
>

d4rkf1ber at gmail

Aug 30, 2007, 12:33 PM

Post #5 of 6 (179 views)
Permalink

Re: DIDs / ELINs for use in CER ? [In reply to]

Is it common practice for telco service providers to offer more
detailed location information then just the address if you request it?

I am running into a bunch of walls in getting this requested.

For instance, if I identify I have 10 locations I want to specify and
I want two DID's for each location then I would ask for 20 DID's, but
they just want to associated these 20 DID's to one location, and one
BTN and say they have no way to provide more detailed info for the
location so say like Floor 1 or Floor 2.

Not to mention the fact that some of these DID's are suppose to be for
different physical locations all together. And then on top of that is
the issue I mentioned earlier where they only send the BTN and don't
honor our calling info.

Is there something specific you have to ask for? Maybe its a
different service that I have to ask for then just asking for new
DID's on a PRI?

Anyway, some of you would mind sharing some info with me such as what
did you have to ask for, maybe the telco or service providers name and
what the service is called if it has a specific name, I would greatly
appreciate the info.

I didn't think this was going to be the hardest part of setting all
this up to be honest.

On 8/30/07, Scott Voll <svoll.voip[at]gmail.com> wrote:
> Good to know because I've dealt with the same issues.
>
> I just thought I had to add the PS-ALI / PSAP contract to get it fixed.
> Guess I'll work on that.
>
> Thanks
>
> Scott
>
>
> On 8/30/07, Ted Nugent <tednugent69[at]yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > If the provider is sending the BTN to the PSAP they
> > need to fix that, that's NOT how it's supposed to
> > work. However you are right 90% of the installs that
> > I've have done have run into this problem but its
> > usually resolved with a call to the provider telling
> > them to honor the calling number sent to them.
> >
> > And actually it would be a problem with passing
> > location info especially if you were working in a
> > multi-building or multisite environment because your
> > ERLs and ELINS are tied together in the PSAP ALI DB.
> > If the BTN is being sent as opposed to the actual ELIN
> > then emergency personnel would always be sent to the
> > bill to address even if the ERL is in another building
> > 2 blocks over on the second floor. So you absolutely
> > need to get that fixed for CER to work correctly.
> >
> >
> > --- Dark Fiber <d4rkf1ber[at]gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I am getting a bit confused about something
> > > regarding the use of DIDs in CER.
> > >
> > > The documents basically state that you need to get
> > > some DID's from the
> > > service provider for each ERL you plan to define,
> > > these DID's will be
> > > used as ELINs to both identify the location and for
> > > the PSAP to return
> > > the call if need be.
> > >
> > > So a 911 call is placed, and once things are setup
> > > CER will basically
> > > do or have CM do a translation of the users
> > > extension to one of these
> > > DIDs you specify so that the service provider will
> > > know what PSAP
> > > that call needs to get routed to and so the PSAP
> > > will have a number to
> > > call back on and such.
> > >
> > > All sounds fine and dandy I guess.
> > >
> > > However, my experience (which isn't much) has led me
> > > to think that
> > > usually when dealing with DID ranges from a service
> > > provider that on
> > > 911 calls the service provider does not usually pass
> > > the DID of the
> > > phone to the PSAP but rather the billing number
> > > which is usually the
> > > first number of the range I thought?
> > >
> > > This isn't a problem as far as passing the location,
> > > but it would be a
> > > problem for a return call from the PSAP. CER would
> > > be looking for a
> > > call coming into one number which would be mapped to
> > > the phone which
> > > called 911, however if the billing number was passed
> > > to the PSAP thats
> > > the number that would be called back.
> > >
> > > Hopefully I am just blanking on something here and
> > > this is not the case.
> > >
> > > Can anyone enlighten me on what I am missing here?
> > > Thanks!
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > cisco-voip mailing list
> > > cisco-voip[at]puck.nether.net
> > > https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car
> Finder tool.
> > http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
> > _______________________________________________
> > cisco-voip mailing list
> > cisco-voip[at]puck.nether.net
> > https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip
> >
>
>
_______________________________________________
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https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip

tednugent69 at yahoo

Aug 30, 2007, 5:31 PM

Post #6 of 6 (179 views)
Permalink

Re: DIDs / ELINs for use in CER ? [In reply to]

Yes there is, it’s a special E911 service you'll more
then likely need to subscribe to, for example Pinpoint
service is what BellSouth offers. You need to work
with your provider to update thier PS-ALI (e911)
database with you're ERL/ELIN Mappings which in turn
is popped to the 911 operator when the call is sent to
the PSAP. If you're not talking to this group you’re
wasting your time because the entire idea is foreign
to them to anyone but them. Not too long ago you could
actually export your CER DB into a NENA compliant ALI
format and just send it off to your provider however
it appears that more recently things have become more
automated (at least for them) and you're required to
manually entire your information. At any rate the key
here is the "E" in E911, this is what allows you to
get granular within you organization, Address,
building, floor, section etc.

HTH
Ted

--- Dark Fiber <d4rkf1ber[at]gmail.com> wrote:

> Is it common practice for telco service providers to
> offer more
> detailed location information then just the address
> if you request it?
>
> I am running into a bunch of walls in getting this
> requested.
>
> For instance, if I identify I have 10 locations I
> want to specify and
> I want two DID's for each location then I would ask
> for 20 DID's, but
> they just want to associated these 20 DID's to one
> location, and one
> BTN and say they have no way to provide more
> detailed info for the
> location so say like Floor 1 or Floor 2.
>
> Not to mention the fact that some of these DID's are
> suppose to be for
> different physical locations all together. And then
> on top of that is
> the issue I mentioned earlier where they only send
> the BTN and don't
> honor our calling info.
>
> Is there something specific you have to ask for?
> Maybe its a
> different service that I have to ask for then just
> asking for new
> DID's on a PRI?
>
> Anyway, some of you would mind sharing some info
> with me such as what
> did you have to ask for, maybe the telco or service
> providers name and
> what the service is called if it has a specific
> name, I would greatly
> appreciate the info.
>
> I didn't think this was going to be the hardest part
> of setting all
> this up to be honest.
>
>
>
> On 8/30/07, Scott Voll <svoll.voip[at]gmail.com> wrote:
> > Good to know because I've dealt with the same
> issues.
> >
> > I just thought I had to add the PS-ALI / PSAP
> contract to get it fixed.
> > Guess I'll work on that.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> > On 8/30/07, Ted Nugent <tednugent69[at]yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > If the provider is sending the BTN to the PSAP
> they
> > > need to fix that, that's NOT how it's supposed
> to
> > > work. However you are right 90% of the installs
> that
> > > I've have done have run into this problem but
> its
> > > usually resolved with a call to the provider
> telling
> > > them to honor the calling number sent to them.
> > >
> > > And actually it would be a problem with passing
> > > location info especially if you were working in
> a
> > > multi-building or multisite environment because
> your
> > > ERLs and ELINS are tied together in the PSAP ALI
> DB.
> > > If the BTN is being sent as opposed to the
> actual ELIN
> > > then emergency personnel would always be sent to
> the
> > > bill to address even if the ERL is in another
> building
> > > 2 blocks over on the second floor. So you
> absolutely
> > > need to get that fixed for CER to work
> correctly.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Dark Fiber <d4rkf1ber[at]gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am getting a bit confused about something
> > > > regarding the use of DIDs in CER.
> > > >
> > > > The documents basically state that you need to
> get
> > > > some DID's from the
> > > > service provider for each ERL you plan to
> define,
> > > > these DID's will be
> > > > used as ELINs to both identify the location
> and for
> > > > the PSAP to return
> > > > the call if need be.
> > > >
> > > > So a 911 call is placed, and once things are
> setup
> > > > CER will basically
> > > > do or have CM do a translation of the users
> > > > extension to one of these
> > > > DIDs you specify so that the service provider
> will
> > > > know what PSAP
> > > > that call needs to get routed to and so the
> PSAP
> > > > will have a number to
> > > > call back on and such.
> > > >
> > > > All sounds fine and dandy I guess.
> > > >
> > > > However, my experience (which isn't much) has
> led me
> > > > to think that
> > > > usually when dealing with DID ranges from a
> service
> > > > provider that on
> > > > 911 calls the service provider does not
> usually pass
> > > > the DID of the
> > > > phone to the PSAP but rather the billing
> number
> > > > which is usually the
> > > > first number of the range I thought?
> > > >
> > > > This isn't a problem as far as passing the
> location,
> > > > but it would be a
> > > > problem for a return call from the PSAP. CER
> would
> > > > be looking for a
> > > > call coming into one number which would be
> mapped to
> > > > the phone which
> > > > called 911, however if the billing number was
> passed
> > > > to the PSAP thats
> > > > the number that would be called back.
> > > >
> > > > Hopefully I am just blanking on something here
> and
> > > > this is not the case.
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone enlighten me on what I am missing
> here?
> > > > Thanks!
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > cisco-voip mailing list
> > > > cisco-voip[at]puck.nether.net
> > > >
> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check
> out Yahoo! Autos new Car
> > Finder tool.
> > > http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > cisco-voip mailing list
> > > cisco-voip[at]puck.nether.net
> > >
> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip
> > >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> cisco-voip mailing list
> cisco-voip[at]puck.nether.net
> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-voip
>

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