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Looping up far end smartjack

 

 

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mylists at battleop

Jun 23, 2010, 8:00 PM

Post #1 of 10 (3980 views)
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Looping up far end smartjack

I've been looking around and can't find a clear cut answer to this question.
Is it possible to loop up a far end T1 smart jack using a PA-MC-T3 in a
7206? Often I open a ticket with the lec and they will take an hour or two
to let us know if they can loop the smart jack up or not. In a brilliant
move the customer's primary and secondary contact numbers are numbers on the
circuit so no one can call to verify that they have power at their site.





Richey

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gawul00 at gmail

Jun 24, 2010, 5:53 AM

Post #2 of 10 (3847 views)
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Re: Looping up far end smartjack [In reply to]

On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 22:00, Richey <mylists [at] battleop> wrote:
> I've been looking around and can't find a clear cut answer to this question.
> Is it possible to loop up a far end T1 smart jack using a PA-MC-T3 in a
> 7206?   Often I open a ticket with the lec and they will take an hour or two
> to let us know if they can loop the smart jack up or not.  In a brilliant
> move the customer's primary and secondary contact numbers are numbers on the
> circuit so no one can call to verify that they have power at their site.
>
>
>
>
>
> Richey
>

Richey,

I believe the remote T1 loopback features are only for CSU/DSU. The
trouble comes when you want to loop it back down - it seems that the
software in the router does not have the right loop-down codes. I
have successfully looped up a remote CSU/DSU but have never been able
to drop it without access to the CSU/DSU that I looped and manually
clearing it (or inserting a T-BIRD and sending the right loop-down
code).

If anyone else has experience in getting this to work, I would be
interested to hear.

Andy

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tkapela at gmail

Jun 24, 2010, 6:14 AM

Post #3 of 10 (3927 views)
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Re: Looping up far end smartjack [In reply to]

On Jun 24, 2010, at 8:53 AM, Andy Koch wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 22:00, Richey <mylists [at] battleop> wrote:
>> I've been looking around and can't find a clear cut answer to this question.
>> Is it possible to loop up a far end T1 smart jack using a PA-MC-T3 in a
>> 7206?

yes, there is.

> I believe the remote T1 loopback features are only for CSU/DSU. The

fortunately for Richey, this is incorrect.

> to drop it without access to the CSU/DSU that I looped and manually
> clearing it (or inserting a T-BIRD and sending the right loop-down
> code).
>
> If anyone else has experience in getting this to work, I would be
> interested to hear.

I suppose this can become a NIU/smartjack specific question. As far as I am aware, Cisco will send the proper bits in the FDL towards the, sending first the loopback enable command (which are stuffed into the 4kbit/sec FDL portion of the ESF header -- the other 4kbit of course are ESF CRC bits), and then sending loopback disable when the command is removed. This has worked fine in practice over several lec and clec TDM networks.

The commands that work for pa-mc-t3 and ct3-ip (yes, vip+7500 rocking out in 2010 = awesome) are:

(config-if)#loopback remote line fdl ?
ansi Per ANSI T1.403 Spec. (remote CSU)
bellcore Per TR-TSY-000312 Spec. (remote SmartJack)

I have found the cisco mft-t1 VWIC's will respond to CSU loopback commands, and nearly every single ADC, adtran, etc NIU has worked fine given bellcore FDL loopback commands.

Of course, I have also noticed anywhere from a 15 to 20 minute 'forced loopback timeout' -- so doing extended tests can be confounded by 'blips' where the smartjack will auto-disable its loopback state.

-Tk


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mylists at battleop

Jun 24, 2010, 7:17 AM

Post #4 of 10 (3848 views)
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Re: Looping up far end smartjack [In reply to]

I was hoping to avoid having to go to the colo late at night. We did
finally hear from the customer. A breaker had tripped and they person on
duty had no idea where the breakers were in the building.

Richey

-----Original Message-----
From: joe mcguckin [mailto:joe [at] via]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:58 AM
To: Richey
Subject: Re: [c-nsp] Looping up far end smartjack

I dont think you can't loop NIU or intermediate repeaters with a PA-MC-T3 -
you'll need a Sunrise or similar testset to do that,


Joe McGuckin
ViaNet Communications

joe [at] via
650-207-0372 cell
650-213-1302 office
650-969-2124 fax



On Jun 23, 2010, at 8:00 PM, Richey wrote:

> I've been looking around and can't find a clear cut answer to this
question.
> Is it possible to loop up a far end T1 smart jack using a PA-MC-T3 in a
> 7206? Often I open a ticket with the lec and they will take an hour or
two
> to let us know if they can loop the smart jack up or not. In a brilliant
> move the customer's primary and secondary contact numbers are numbers on
the
> circuit so no one can call to verify that they have power at their site.
>
>
>
>
>
> Richey
>
> _______________________________________________
> cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp [at] puck
> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp
> archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/

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adam.korab at gmail

Jun 28, 2010, 4:00 PM

Post #5 of 10 (3792 views)
Permalink
Re: Looping up far end smartjack [In reply to]

On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Richey <mylists [at] battleop> wrote:

> I was hoping to avoid having to go to the colo late at night. We did
> finally hear from the customer. A breaker had tripped and they person on
> duty had no idea where the breakers were in the building.
>
>
T1 duty was long ago in a galaxy far away for me...but aren't NIUs all
line-powered? That is, wouldn't you want to loop the remote CSU/DSU anyway
to confirm power?

--Adam
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ptimmins at clearrate

Jun 28, 2010, 4:08 PM

Post #6 of 10 (3790 views)
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Re: Looping up far end smartjack [In reply to]

Fiber fed ones aren't - but usually the copper loop fed ones are.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cisco-nsp-bounces [at] puck [mailto:cisco-nsp-
> bounces [at] puck] On Behalf Of Adam Korab
> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 7:01 PM
> To: Richey
> Cc: cisco-nsp [at] puck
> Subject: Re: [c-nsp] Looping up far end smartjack
>
> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Richey <mylists [at] battleop> wrote:
>
> > I was hoping to avoid having to go to the colo late at night. We
> did
> > finally hear from the customer. A breaker had tripped and they person
> on
> > duty had no idea where the breakers were in the building.
> >
> >
> T1 duty was long ago in a galaxy far away for me...but aren't NIUs all
> line-powered? That is, wouldn't you want to loop the remote CSU/DSU
> anyway
> to confirm power?
>
> --Adam
> _______________________________________________
> cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp [at] puck
> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp
> archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/

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jay at west

Jun 28, 2010, 4:20 PM

Post #7 of 10 (3787 views)
Permalink
Re: Looping up far end smartjack [In reply to]

On 6/28/10 4:00 PM, Adam Korab wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Richey <mylists [at] battleop> wrote:
>
>> I was hoping to avoid having to go to the colo late at night. We did
>> finally hear from the customer. A breaker had tripped and they person on
>> duty had no idea where the breakers were in the building.
>>
>>
> T1 duty was long ago in a galaxy far away for me...but aren't NIUs all
> line-powered? That is, wouldn't you want to loop the remote CSU/DSU anyway
> to confirm power?

Can't speak for all, but every T1 NIU I've seen has been powered from
central office battery over the same pair(s) that deliver the T1 signal.

So, ability to loop the NIU verifies that the telco span to the premise
and the NIU itself are working.

If the NIU loops up and the CSU doesn't, then the most likely issues are
local utility power or inside wiring.

If neither loops, it's most likely a trouble with the telco pair(s)
between the CO and the NIU, aka backhoe fade.

--
Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay [at] impulse
Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/
Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV
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mylists at battleop

Jun 28, 2010, 7:37 PM

Post #8 of 10 (3783 views)
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Re: Looping up far end smartjack [In reply to]

Will the card respond to loop codes even if the router is in ronmon?





Richey



From: Adam Korab [mailto:adam.korab [at] gmail]
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 7:01 PM
To: Richey
Cc: cisco-nsp [at] puck
Subject: Re: [c-nsp] Looping up far end smartjack



On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Richey <mylists [at] battleop> wrote:

I was hoping to avoid having to go to the colo late at night. We did
finally hear from the customer. A breaker had tripped and they person on
duty had no idea where the breakers were in the building.



T1 duty was long ago in a galaxy far away for me...but aren't NIUs all
line-powered? That is, wouldn't you want to loop the remote CSU/DSU anyway
to confirm power?



--Adam

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mylists at battleop

Jun 28, 2010, 7:41 PM

Post #9 of 10 (3785 views)
Permalink
Re: Looping up far end smartjack [In reply to]

I just thought about that for a second.. If the T1 is down then the router
will be down as well. In the event of a power outage I still can't tell if
the power is off or the T1 is down. If I can hit the smart jack and not
the router then I could assume it's a power outage.



Richey



From: Adam Korab [mailto:adam.korab [at] gmail]
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 7:01 PM
To: Richey
Cc: cisco-nsp [at] puck
Subject: Re: [c-nsp] Looping up far end smartjack



On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Richey <mylists [at] battleop> wrote:

I was hoping to avoid having to go to the colo late at night. We did
finally hear from the customer. A breaker had tripped and they person on
duty had no idea where the breakers were in the building.



T1 duty was long ago in a galaxy far away for me...but aren't NIUs all
line-powered? That is, wouldn't you want to loop the remote CSU/DSU anyway
to confirm power?



--Adam

_______________________________________________
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archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/


jay at west

Jun 28, 2010, 7:58 PM

Post #10 of 10 (3780 views)
Permalink
Re: Looping up far end smartjack [In reply to]

On 6/28/10 7:37 PM, Richey wrote:
> Will the card respond to loop codes even if the router is in ronmon?

The NIU will respond to loop codes regardless of the state of the
router. The router doesn't even need to be connected.

CSUs that are integrated into a WIC will probably not respond if the
router is in rommon, although I haven't tried it. I believe that some
microcode needs to load from IOS to make the WIC functional.

Old-school external CSUs like the Adtran TSU will loop regardless of the
state of the router.

--
Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay [at] impulse
Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/
Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV
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