Mailing List Archive: Cisco: NSP

QoS for different types of internet customers

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lobotiger at gmail

Nov 26, 2009, 6:08 AM

Post #1 of 5 (545 views)
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QoS for different types of internet customers

We're in the early stages of planning a QoS rollout for our MPLS enabled
network and while we have in mind to offer about 4 different classes
(Real Time, Gold, Silver, Bronze/Best Effort), we were told by Marketing
that they wish to differentiate between different types of Internet
customers. Originally and like most standard practices, any internet
customer's traffic would normally be put in the BE queue. Now we're
getting requests to have say the low, bursty internet customers (1.5Mbps
- 3.0Mbps) get put into the BE queue while a dedicated 20Mbps should go
into the silver or even gold queue.

I have many problems with this like how would you be able to put the 20M
customer's traffic in to the gold queue for traffic coming in from the
Internet? The only way I can think of is to match on their IP space on
each of our gateway routers but this would destroy our gateways since
they're already running hot enough. Another issue is, what happens if
that customer gets DDoS'd? This would mean that we're guaranteeing that
at least 20Mbps of DoS traffic would be able to go through our network
and to the customer's site. Oh and at the same time probably affecting
the data customers who would be using the gold/silver queues for their
services.

Do you guys have any advice whether it's more ammunition for me to say
no way or some kind of design/configuration that would possibly work?

Thanks in advance.

Jose
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lobotiger at gmail

Nov 26, 2009, 6:55 AM

Post #2 of 5 (517 views)
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Re: QoS for different types of internet customers [In reply to]

This is how I view it as well...only provide QoS to the MPLS VPN since
all the traffic stays on your network. I think what the Sales &
Marketing folk are seeing this as, "well our dedicated internet
customers pay more than the burst low speed customers so we should be
able to guarantee their traffic in times of congestion." It's always
about the $$$.

Jose

William Byrd wrote:
> If it helps we only offer QoS to customers with MPLS VPN. Our QoS
> product is very similar to what you're talking about. (Gold, Silver,
> and Bronze) It doesn't make sense to us to prioritize Internet traffic
> as it is all BE once it leaves our network. When we originally turned
> all of this up the reasoning to marketing folks was that speed vs.
> Bandwidth was usually confusing enough to customers and trying to
> explain why end to end QoS across the Internet won't work would be
> hell for our support teams.
>
> Basically the way we broke down our QoS was:
>
> Bronze - best effort
> Silver - premium data for customers
> Gold - customer voip / video
>
> I guess you could call our gold queue the real time queue.
>
> --
> Will Collier-Byrd
>
> On Nov 26, 2009, at 9:08 AM, Lobo <lobotiger [at] gmail> wrote:
>
>
>> We're in the early stages of planning a QoS rollout for our MPLS
>> enabled network and while we have in mind to offer about 4 different
>> classes (Real Time, Gold, Silver, Bronze/Best Effort), we were told
>> by Marketing that they wish to differentiate between different types
>> of Internet customers. Originally and like most standard practices,
>> any internet customer's traffic would normally be put in the BE
>> queue. Now we're getting requests to have say the low, bursty
>> internet customers (1.5Mbps - 3.0Mbps) get put into the BE queue
>> while a dedicated 20Mbps should go into the silver or even gold queue.
>>
>> I have many problems with this like how would you be able to put the
>> 20M customer's traffic in to the gold queue for traffic coming in
>> from the Internet? The only way I can think of is to match on their
>> IP space on each of our gateway routers but this would destroy our
>> gateways since they're already running hot enough. Another issue
>> is, what happens if that customer gets DDoS'd? This would mean that
>> we're guaranteeing that at least 20Mbps of DoS traffic would be able
>> to go through our network and to the customer's site. Oh and at the
>> same time probably affecting the data customers who would be using
>> the gold/silver queues for their services.
>>
>> Do you guys have any advice whether it's more ammunition for me to
>> say no way or some kind of design/configuration that would possibly
>> work?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Jose
>> _______________________________________________
>> cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp [at] puck
>> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp
>> archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
>>
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andy.saykao at staff

Nov 26, 2009, 10:35 PM

Post #3 of 5 (504 views)
Permalink

Re: QoS for different types of internet customers [In reply to]

Sorry to diverse a bit from this discussion, but for customers on the
Gold plan such as the one mentioned by Will, do you just prioritize
their voip/video traffic so this traffic goes into the LLQ??? What
happens to their other traffic - how will it be handled by the QoS
policy?

Cheers.

Andy

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 09:55:50 -0500
From: Lobo <lobotiger [at] gmail>
To: Cisco-NSP Mailing List <cisco-nsp [at] puck>
Subject: Re: [c-nsp] QoS for different types of internet customers
Message-ID: <4B0E96F6.1090802 [at] gmail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

This is how I view it as well...only provide QoS to the MPLS VPN since
all the traffic stays on your network. I think what the Sales &
Marketing folk are seeing this as, "well our dedicated internet
customers pay more than the burst low speed customers so we should be
able to guarantee their traffic in times of congestion." It's always
about the $$$.

Jose

>William Byrd wrote:
>
> Basically the way we broke down our QoS was:
>
> Bronze - best effort
> Silver - premium data for customers
> Gold - customer voip / video
>
> I guess you could call our gold queue the real time queue.
>
> --
> Will Collier-Byrd

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
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Please notify the sender immediately by email if you have received this
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author and do not necessarily represent those of the organisation.
Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for
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damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email.

_______________________________________________
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avayner at cisco

Nov 29, 2009, 5:54 AM

Post #4 of 5 (469 views)
Permalink

Re: QoS for different types of internet customers [In reply to]

What could be done is to build a few profiles where you allow the
customer a pre defined mix of all 3 (or just 2) classes, each with a set
percentage of the total link BW.
You allow the customer to send the traffic pre-marked, and on your side
use a policer to make sure they do not overload a specific class - and
down-mark the excess traffic to a lower/BE class.

Arie

-----Original Message-----
From: cisco-nsp-bounces [at] puck
[mailto:cisco-nsp-bounces [at] puck] On Behalf Of Andy Saykao
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 08:36
To: cisco-nsp [at] puck
Subject: Re: [c-nsp] QoS for different types of internet customers

Sorry to diverse a bit from this discussion, but for customers on the
Gold plan such as the one mentioned by Will, do you just prioritize
their voip/video traffic so this traffic goes into the LLQ??? What
happens to their other traffic - how will it be handled by the QoS
policy?

Cheers.

Andy

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 09:55:50 -0500
From: Lobo <lobotiger [at] gmail>
To: Cisco-NSP Mailing List <cisco-nsp [at] puck>
Subject: Re: [c-nsp] QoS for different types of internet customers
Message-ID: <4B0E96F6.1090802 [at] gmail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

This is how I view it as well...only provide QoS to the MPLS VPN since
all the traffic stays on your network. I think what the Sales &
Marketing folk are seeing this as, "well our dedicated internet
customers pay more than the burst low speed customers so we should be
able to guarantee their traffic in times of congestion." It's always
about the $$$.

Jose

>William Byrd wrote:
>
> Basically the way we broke down our QoS was:
>
> Bronze - best effort
> Silver - premium data for customers
> Gold - customer voip / video
>
> I guess you could call our gold queue the real time queue.
>
> --
> Will Collier-Byrd

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
addressed.
Please notify the sender immediately by email if you have received this
email by mistake and delete this email from your system. Please note
that
any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily represent those of the organisation.
Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for
the presence of viruses. The organisation accepts no liability for any
damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email.

_______________________________________________
cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp [at] puck
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp
archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
_______________________________________________
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andy.saykao at staff

Nov 29, 2009, 2:01 PM

Post #5 of 5 (461 views)
Permalink

Re: QoS for different types of internet customers [In reply to]

Thanks Arie. I had a sneaking suspicion it might be like that.

I wasn't sure what happened to the customer's entire traffic mix who
were in the GOLD class. Sure their real time traffic gets preferential
treatment but what happens to their mission-critical data traffic? Makes
sense what you're saying.

-----Original Message-----
From: Arie Vayner (avayner) [mailto:avayner [at] cisco]
Sent: Monday, 30 November 2009 12:54 AM
To: Andy Saykao; cisco-nsp [at] puck
Subject: RE: [c-nsp] QoS for different types of internet customers

What could be done is to build a few profiles where you allow the
customer a pre defined mix of all 3 (or just 2) classes, each with a set
percentage of the total link BW.
You allow the customer to send the traffic pre-marked, and on your side
use a policer to make sure they do not overload a specific class - and
down-mark the excess traffic to a lower/BE class.

Arie

-----Original Message-----
From: cisco-nsp-bounces [at] puck
[mailto:cisco-nsp-bounces [at] puck] On Behalf Of Andy Saykao
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 08:36
To: cisco-nsp [at] puck
Subject: Re: [c-nsp] QoS for different types of internet customers

Sorry to diverse a bit from this discussion, but for customers on the
Gold plan such as the one mentioned by Will, do you just prioritize
their voip/video traffic so this traffic goes into the LLQ??? What
happens to their other traffic - how will it be handled by the QoS
policy?

Cheers.

Andy

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 09:55:50 -0500
From: Lobo <lobotiger [at] gmail>
To: Cisco-NSP Mailing List <cisco-nsp [at] puck>
Subject: Re: [c-nsp] QoS for different types of internet customers
Message-ID: <4B0E96F6.1090802 [at] gmail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

This is how I view it as well...only provide QoS to the MPLS VPN since
all the traffic stays on your network. I think what the Sales &
Marketing folk are seeing this as, "well our dedicated internet
customers pay more than the burst low speed customers so we should be
able to guarantee their traffic in times of congestion." It's always
about the $$$.

Jose

>William Byrd wrote:
>
> Basically the way we broke down our QoS was:
>
> Bronze - best effort
> Silver - premium data for customers
> Gold - customer voip / video
>
> I guess you could call our gold queue the real time queue.
>
> --
> Will Collier-Byrd

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed.
Please notify the sender immediately by email if you have received this
email by mistake and delete this email from your system. Please note
that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of
the author and do not necessarily represent those of the organisation.
Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for
the presence of viruses. The organisation accepts no liability for any
damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email.

_______________________________________________
cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp [at] puck
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp
archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/

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