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Cherokee wish list discussion - CACHING

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pubcrawler.com at gmail

Aug 31, 2009, 9:47 AM

Post #1 of 8 (489 views)
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Cherokee wish list discussion - CACHING

Hello everyone.

Posting to get your input on what type(s) of caching you would like to
see Cherokee do in future releases - this is for caching beyond that
which Cherokee does with static content it serves itself.

There has been discussion here about memcached and Varnish in the
recent past. Someone is working on Cherokee+memcached tie in
currently from my understanding (can't wait!).

Share with us the caching engines you use. Also what types of tie-ins
to such engines would you expect Cherokee to support.

Finally, share with us your odd cache uses and needs for the future.

Together we can help determine what Cherokee becomes (cache related)
and what development will be done.

Thank you!
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stefan at konink

Aug 31, 2009, 9:53 AM

Post #2 of 8 (472 views)
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Re: Cherokee wish list discussion - CACHING [In reply to]

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pub crawler schreef:
> Someone is working on Cherokee+memcached tie in
> currently from my understanding (can't wait!).

Help debugging it! For some reason in Keepalive mode the performance
goes woes. I have no reason why that is, and why it works in non-keepalive.

> Together we can help determine what Cherokee becomes (cache related)
> and what development will be done.

Do you mean there is democracy here? THE HORROR!

Stefan
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pubcrawler.com at gmail

Aug 31, 2009, 10:58 AM

Post #3 of 8 (462 views)
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Re: Cherokee wish list discussion - CACHING [In reply to]

Oh no, politricks chimes in.... Not sure if democracy is the right word :)

Representation of folks needs/wants/wishes - so we at least consider
the wild and weird ways people use various cache solutions...

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Stefan de Konink<stefan [at] konink> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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>
> pub crawler schreef:
>> Someone is working on Cherokee+memcached tie in
>> currently from my understanding (can't wait!).
>
> Help debugging it! For some reason in Keepalive mode the performance
> goes woes. I have no reason why that is, and why it works in non-keepalive.
>
>> Together we can help determine what Cherokee becomes (cache related)
>> and what development will be done.
>
> Do you mean there is democracy here? THE HORROR!
>
>
> Stefan
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>
> iEYEAREKAAYFAkqb//AACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3OKACbB3+MzoO/yoNMBqBtADV8LQfU
> x5IAn0FY0H+IhaW5FJVJ7K5K/4V6YVMO
> =/bKZ
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
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alvaro at octality

Aug 31, 2009, 2:10 PM

Post #4 of 8 (464 views)
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Re: Cherokee wish list discussion - CACHING [In reply to]

On 31-ago-09, at 18:47, pub crawler wrote:

> Together we can help determine what Cherokee becomes (cache related)
> and what development will be done.

My original idea is to write a in-memory cache. Basically a fixed size
cache to hold the N most requested files. It'd be a mechanism to
reduce the load of the back-ends.

There's another cache type we could implement though. It'd be more
like a "let's mirror everything locally" cache. In this case, every
cacheable item would be stored in a local file, and successive
requests would use read it. It looks like the implementation
complexity of this cache would be higher.

IMO, the in-memory cache will be useful for more people, but I'd like
to know what you guys think about it.

--
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http://www.octality.com/

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stefan at konink

Aug 31, 2009, 2:27 PM

Post #5 of 8 (460 views)
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Re: Cherokee wish list discussion - CACHING [In reply to]

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Alvaro Lopez Ortega schreef:
> On 31-ago-09, at 18:47, pub crawler wrote:
>
>> Together we can help determine what Cherokee becomes (cache related)
>> and what development will be done.
>
>
> My original idea is to write a in-memory cache. Basically a fixed size
> cache to hold the N most requested files. It'd be a mechanism to
> reduce the load of the back-ends.
>
> There's another cache type we could implement though. It'd be more
> like a "let's mirror everything locally" cache. In this case, every
> cacheable item would be stored in a local file, and successive
> requests would use read it. It looks like the implementation
> complexity of this cache would be higher.
>
> IMO, the in-memory cache will be useful for more people, but I'd like
> to know what you guys think about it.

What about mmaping your in memory cache? Then it is persistent over time?

Stefan
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alvaro at octality

Aug 31, 2009, 2:45 PM

Post #6 of 8 (458 views)
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Re: Cherokee wish list discussion - CACHING [In reply to]

On 31-ago-09, at 23:27, Stefan de Konink wrote:
> Alvaro Lopez Ortega schreef:
>> On 31-ago-09, at 18:47, pub crawler wrote:
>>
>>> Together we can help determine what Cherokee becomes (cache related)
>>> and what development will be done.
>>
>>
>> My original idea is to write a in-memory cache. Basically a fixed
>> size
>> cache to hold the N most requested files. It'd be a mechanism to
>> reduce the load of the back-ends.
>>
>> There's another cache type we could implement though. It'd be more
>> like a "let's mirror everything locally" cache. In this case, every
>> cacheable item would be stored in a local file, and successive
>> requests would use read it. It looks like the implementation
>> complexity of this cache would be higher.
>>
>> IMO, the in-memory cache will be useful for more people, but I'd like
>> to know what you guys think about it.
>
> What about mmaping your in memory cache? Then it is persistent over
> time?

I don't think it'd be worth.. Let's see:

PROS:
- Persistent over reboots

CONS:
- Higher complexity
- Lower performance

Am I missing some other pro? :-m

--
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http://www.octality.com/

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stefan at konink

Aug 31, 2009, 2:50 PM

Post #7 of 8 (461 views)
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Re: Cherokee wish list discussion - CACHING [In reply to]

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Alvaro Lopez Ortega schreef:
> I don't think it'd be worth.. Let's see:
>
> PROS:
> - Persistent over reboots
>
> CONS:
> - Higher complexity

Not really true ofcourse, because what you would do is mallocing opposed
to a memory mapped region.

> - Lower performance

Also not really true, because the writes to disk will be handled by the
os, there is no lower performance in anonymous memory in typical use if
the memory itself is available.

> Am I missing some other pro? :-m

Might be one, but you have to evaluate this at each setup: is it
worthwile to cache (store and fetch from disks) opposed to regenerating
the result. Which might be not io bound.

Stefan
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pubcrawler.com at gmail

Aug 31, 2009, 4:45 PM

Post #8 of 8 (459 views)
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Re: Cherokee wish list discussion - CACHING [In reply to]

The ability to reload cache from disk is major point to consider.
There are many instances where a configuration change might have
someone hard starting Cherokee several times - thus running with no
cache for extended time should we not have a reloadable disk cache.
Usually cold starts after crashes or extended outages are the most
painful and thus Cherokee could become a good tool for many to avoid
these troubled times :)

Unsure how the reads/writes to disk will overall perform. Seems like
this Varnish does this - preallocates a single file at set amount of
memory then reads and writes as it needs to. The startup time when
spawning it fresh is unnoticeable on our gear and the pure throughput
from Varnish immediately is very high. (Wish memcached would get on
board with a similar to-disk feature).

I'd be very interested in getting this new Cherokee cache accessible
in some other abstract usable ways - like as a filesystem. It's still
unclear how the cache will be tied-in and what access will be
available. If it is like the current IO Cache in Cherokee - it will be
transparent. Is this the idea? I would wish for more accessible
feature - where we can fetch data on-demand from other apps - not just
Cherokee per se.

Finally, getting this new cache mechanism to transparently cache set
item types from Reverse Proxy (like .gif, .jpg, etc. - static files -
user defined) is the big powerful feature for us - should it be
doable. Is that part of the cache strategy at this point?

-Paul
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