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jon at jrock

Oct 17, 2006, 8:22 AM

Post #1 of 16 (2795 views)
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Catalyst book

I'm working on a book for Packt Publishing (O'Reilly wasn't interested,
I'm told, but I wasn't the one who asked them). It's a basic Catalyst
introduction, and it will be out sometime next summer (my timeline says
June).

Info was posted to the dev list a month or so ago, so feel free to dig
up my outline from there. The "final" version hasn't changed much.

David Lloyd wrote:
> "If O'Reilly would publish such a book, they might publish such a book
> about the Catalyst Framework..."

Regards,
Jonathan Rockway

--
package JAPH;use Catalyst qw/-Debug/;($;=JAPH)->config(name => do {
$,.=reverse qw[Jonathan tsu rehton lre rekca Rockway][$_].[split //,
";$;"]->[$_].q; ;for 1..4;$,=~s;^.;;;$,});$;->setup;

_______________________________________________
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ghenry at perl

Oct 17, 2006, 1:32 PM

Post #2 of 16 (2690 views)
Permalink
Re: Catalyst book [In reply to]

<quote who="Jonathan Rockway">
> I'm working on a book for Packt Publishing (O'Reilly wasn't interested,
> I'm told, but I wasn't the one who asked them). It's a basic Catalyst
> introduction, and it will be out sometime next summer (my timeline says
> June).
>
> Info was posted to the dev list a month or so ago, so feel free to dig
> up my outline from there. The "final" version hasn't changed much.

Damn, I missed that!

Will have to dig through the archives.

Gavin.

>
> David Lloyd wrote:
>> "If O'Reilly would publish such a book, they might publish such a book
>> about the Catalyst Framework..."
>
> Regards,
> Jonathan Rockway
>
> --
> package JAPH;use Catalyst qw/-Debug/;($;=JAPH)->config(name => do {
> $,.=reverse qw[Jonathan tsu rehton lre rekca Rockway][$_].[split //,
> ";$;"]->[$_].q; ;for 1..4;$,=~s;^.;;;$,});$;->setup;
>
> _______________________________________________
> List: Catalyst [at] lists
> Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
> Searchable archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst [at] lists/
> Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
>


_______________________________________________
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chisel at herlpacker

Jan 31, 2008, 12:40 PM

Post #3 of 16 (2556 views)
Permalink
Re: catalyst book [In reply to]

On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 04:19:22PM -0400, Fernanda Boronat wrote:
> Hello, forgive my English, I speak Spanish, I would like to know if
> anyone has the book: Accelerating Perl Web Application Development
> (Packt Pub.) In digital format (PDF) or any link to be able to
> download

Or ... like the rest of us, you could buy a copy.

http://www.packtpub.com/catalyst-perl-web-application/book


--
Chisel Wright
e: chisel [at] herlpacker
w: http://www.herlpacker.co.uk/

Screenie or it didn't happen.

_______________________________________________
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Wade.Stuart at fallon

Jan 31, 2008, 1:08 PM

Post #4 of 16 (2566 views)
Permalink
Re: catalyst book [In reply to]

Chisel Wright <chisel [at] herlpacker> wrote on 01/31/2008 02:40:14 PM:

> On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 04:19:22PM -0400, Fernanda Boronat wrote:
> > Hello, forgive my English, I speak Spanish, I would like to know if
> > anyone has the book: Accelerating Perl Web Application Development
> > (Packt Pub.) In digital format (PDF) or any link to be able to
> > download
>
> Or ... like the rest of us, you could buy a copy.
>
> http://www.packtpub.com/catalyst-perl-web-application/book

No idea if he was asking for a pirated version or if he was just looking
for a electronic version to buy -- I would hope the second option.

-Wade


_______________________________________________
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jon at jrock

Jan 31, 2008, 1:13 PM

Post #5 of 16 (2544 views)
Permalink
Re: catalyst book [In reply to]

* On Thu, Jan 31 2008, Wade.Stuart [at] fallon wrote:
> Chisel Wright <chisel [at] herlpacker> wrote on 01/31/2008 02:40:14 PM:
>
>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 04:19:22PM -0400, Fernanda Boronat wrote:
>> > Hello, forgive my English, I speak Spanish, I would like to know if
>> > anyone has the book: Accelerating Perl Web Application Development
>> > (Packt Pub.) In digital format (PDF) or any link to be able to
>> > download
>>
>> Or ... like the rest of us, you could buy a copy.
>>
>> http://www.packtpub.com/catalyst-perl-web-application/book
>
> No idea if he was asking for a pirated version or if he was just looking
> for a electronic version to buy -- I would hope the second option.

My understanding is that the PDF versions of the book were suffering
from piracy problems, so they were pulled. (Not my title specifically,
this happened to the publisher before my book came out.) Tragedy of the
commons; it only takes one person to fuck it up for everyone else.

Safari might have it though.

Regards,
Jonathan Rockway

_______________________________________________
List: Catalyst [at] lists
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst [at] lists/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/


noe at noesnaterse

Jan 31, 2008, 1:20 PM

Post #6 of 16 (2552 views)
Permalink
Re: catalyst book [In reply to]

Safari doesn't have it.

Although a couple of weeks ago the announced a deal with packt, this title
is not on safari.
I'm not sure if it ever will become available.

Regards,
Noe

On 1/31/08, Jonathan Rockway <jon [at] jrock> wrote:
>
> * On Thu, Jan 31 2008, Wade.Stuart [at] fallon wrote:
> > Chisel Wright <chisel [at] herlpacker> wrote on 01/31/2008 02:40:14 PM:
> >
> >> On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 04:19:22PM -0400, Fernanda Boronat wrote:
> >> > Hello, forgive my English, I speak Spanish, I would like to know if
> >> > anyone has the book: Accelerating Perl Web Application Development
> >> > (Packt Pub.) In digital format (PDF) or any link to be able to
> >> > download
> >>
> >> Or ... like the rest of us, you could buy a copy.
> >>
> >> http://www.packtpub.com/catalyst-perl-web-application/book
> >
> > No idea if he was asking for a pirated version or if he was just looking
> > for a electronic version to buy -- I would hope the second option.
>
> My understanding is that the PDF versions of the book were suffering
> from piracy problems, so they were pulled. (Not my title specifically,
> this happened to the publisher before my book came out.) Tragedy of the
> commons; it only takes one person to fuck it up for everyone else.
>
> Safari might have it though.
>
> Regards,
> Jonathan Rockway
>
> _______________________________________________
> List: Catalyst [at] lists
> Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
> Searchable archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst [at] lists/
> Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
>


jon at jrock

Jan 31, 2008, 1:31 PM

Post #7 of 16 (2553 views)
Permalink
Re: catalyst book [In reply to]

* On Thu, Jan 31 2008, Noƫ Snaterse wrote:
> Safari doesn't have it.
>
> Although a couple of weeks ago the announced a deal with packt, this title is
> not on safari.
> I'm not sure if it ever will become available.

Ah well, a paper copy is better for multitasking anyway. Your screen
contains emacs and a web browser, the book contains what you're trying
to learn. Books are cheaper than bigger LCDs :)

Regards,
Jonathan Rockway

_______________________________________________
List: Catalyst [at] lists
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
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Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/


lists at evancarroll

Jan 31, 2008, 2:29 PM

Post #8 of 16 (2562 views)
Permalink
Re: catalyst book [In reply to]

> My understanding is that the PDF versions of the book were suffering
> from piracy problems, so they were pulled. (Not my title specifically,
> this happened to the publisher before my book came out.) Tragedy of the
> commons; it only takes one person to fuck it up for everyone else.

Make a wikibook (obligatory answer).

Everyone should upload their notes when they're learning a framework
to wikibooks. Prior to wikibooks, I found that before I finished
learning any piece of software I had 50 tomboy's, now I spend the
extra effort to just add navigation.

Check out the Moose book for an example.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Programming_with_Moose It isn't the best
thing since sliced bread, or a commercial-grade book but it is free
and anyone can improve upon it without any knowledge of a VCS, or a
commit bit.

By any means, it is the publisher's decision if they don't want your
sale. And justifying yanking your format of choice because of piracy
is lame and shitty.

--
Evan Carroll
System Lord of the Internets
me [at] evancarroll
832-445-8877

_______________________________________________
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Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/


jon at jrock

Jan 31, 2008, 3:49 PM

Post #9 of 16 (2562 views)
Permalink
Re: catalyst book [In reply to]

* On Thu, Jan 31 2008, Evan Carroll wrote:
> Make a wikibook (obligatory answer).

This is a fine idea, and something that I might consider the next time I
write a book. But really, I don't *love* writing instruction manuals;
it's easy to find something else to do when you're not being paid.

Wikibooks generally suffer from bikeshed painting and a lack of
coherency. Basically, the barrier of entry is too low, and there's no
incentive to do a good job (because someone else will just fix it,
right). This results in a product that's only mediocre.

If you like writing Wikibooks, knock yourself out. For me, the
effort/reward ratio is too low.

> Everyone should upload their notes when they're learning a framework
> to wikibooks. Prior to wikibooks, I found that before I finished
> learning any piece of software I had 50 tomboy's, now I spend the
> extra effort to just add navigation.

This is also fine, but the result is usually a shell script or "follow
these steps exactly", not a document that increases your understanding
of the concepts. Teach a man to fish... and all that.

> Check out the Moose book for an example.
> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Programming_with_Moose It isn't the best
> thing since sliced bread, or a commercial-grade book but it is free
> and anyone can improve upon it without any knowledge of a VCS, or a
> commit bit.

The thing about writing a book is that you really need to understand the
underlying concepts so you can show the reader what they mean and how
they fit together. In the case of the Moose book, you continually
ignore parts of Moose that you don't understand (and refuse to
understand); this really diminishes the value of the book. Like I say
above, it's not coherent, and it doesn't teach anything. "perldoc
Moose" makes for much more enjoyable reading.

When writing a book, you should be objective. Document all the
features, even the ones you don't use every day. If you're not
absolutely sure about how something works, you need to keep researching
it until you do understand how it works. Also, save your opinions and
"this sucks" for your blog, and your "suggestions for improvement" for
the Moose mailing list. They have no place in a book.

> By any means, it is the publisher's decision if they don't want your
> sale. And justifying yanking your format of choice because of piracy
> is lame and shitty.

I think you are confusing the difference between the words "my" and
"your". Personally, I prefer paper books. Much easier on my eyes, and
a needed break from staring at my computer screen.

Obviously you disagree, and I'm sorry that your needs couldn't be met.
If you'd like a book in a different format, I'd be glad to write one for
you for $60,000. Doesn't $40 for a paper copy seem more appealing now?

Regards,
Jonathan Rockway

_______________________________________________
List: Catalyst [at] lists
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst [at] lists/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/


telebody at gmail

Feb 1, 2008, 2:37 AM

Post #10 of 16 (2540 views)
Permalink
Re: catalyst book [In reply to]

Possibly companies that wish to give back to open source could
contribute to a professional documentation fund. In this case digital
publication will enable the money to be used most efficiently.

Such a project could have a project owner and other contributors,
including those who contribute text and others who provide brief notes
on their own cases. In there, someone who is an experienced editor.

I am right now on a business trip in Sweden learning a new piece of
industrial software, which is used by lots of big companies. Turns out
a lot of the knowledge is locked in people's heads and one result is
that much time is spent on seminars. Some is okay but having docs to
digest in advance could save time and money.

If a project is going to be rolled out across other offices then
writing docs early could save money later. I don't know if this is
applicable to Catalyst but possibly it is when training a development
team to get them up to speed more quickly.

Writing documentation can be a learning experience but it is critical
to have an expert provide the focus and approach. Perhaps that could
be outlined sparsely and have others flesh it out with supervision by
the expert.

$60K for a book sounds like a nice deal. I recently worked on
translating a book on FindBugs, a cool sourceforge project that finds
bugs in Java code (wish one existed for Perl!) for a commercial
publisher (ASCII) for the Japanese market, just editing it was a big
job.

I don't know if it would attract enough people but I would likely buy
digital books on Catalyst.

My two cents.

Matt R.

_______________________________________________
List: Catalyst [at] lists
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst [at] lists/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/


jon at jrock

Feb 1, 2008, 6:20 AM

Post #11 of 16 (2535 views)
Permalink
Re: catalyst book [In reply to]

* On Fri, Feb 01 2008, Matt Rosin wrote:
> Possibly companies that wish to give back to open source could
> contribute to a professional documentation fund. In this case digital
> publication will enable the money to be used most efficiently.

Yes, this is a good idea. We were talking about this on #moose
yesterday and the idea of having TPF fund book writing via grants might
be a good way to get docs. The author gets $2000 for writing a
half-length book (say, 150 pages), the community gets a freely-licensed
book to do whatever they want with. If you want a printed copy, you can
donate money (say, $10) back to TPF.

I will probably look into this more seriously in the near future. Right
now this is pure fantasy :)

Regards,
Jonathan Rockway

_______________________________________________
List: Catalyst [at] lists
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst [at] lists/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/


stefan.petrea at gmail

Feb 1, 2008, 10:27 PM

Post #12 of 16 (2528 views)
Permalink
Re: catalyst book [In reply to]

On Friday 01 February 2008 16:20, Jonathan Rockway wrote:

some people have done similar things.
maybe take a look here http://www.greenteapress.com/
they've written free books under GNU license and they charge
only for printed copies just as you say.

> * On Fri, Feb 01 2008, Matt Rosin wrote:
> > Possibly companies that wish to give back to open source could
> > contribute to a professional documentation fund. In this case digital
> > publication will enable the money to be used most efficiently.
>
> Yes, this is a good idea. We were talking about this on #moose
> yesterday and the idea of having TPF fund book writing via grants might
> be a good way to get docs. The author gets $2000 for writing a
> half-length book (say, 150 pages), the community gets a freely-licensed
> book to do whatever they want with. If you want a printed copy, you can
> donate money (say, $10) back to TPF.
>
> I will probably look into this more seriously in the near future. Right
> now this is pure fantasy :)
>
> Regards,
> Jonathan Rockway
>
> _______________________________________________
> List: Catalyst [at] lists
> Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
> Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst [at] lists/
> Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
>

_______________________________________________
List: Catalyst [at] lists
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst [at] lists/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/


telebody at gmail

Feb 4, 2008, 6:40 PM

Post #13 of 16 (2500 views)
Permalink
Re: catalyst book [In reply to]

Also a good way to get code demos perhaps.

Matt R.

_______________________________________________
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Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/


diment at gmail

Feb 5, 2008, 12:17 AM

Post #14 of 16 (2493 views)
Permalink
Re: catalyst book [In reply to]

On 5 Feb 2008, at 13:40, Matt Rosin wrote:

> Also a good way to get code demos perhaps.
>


*ahem*

08:16 <@kd> purl, catalyst examples?
08:16 < purl> somebody said catalyst examples was http://
dev.catalystframework.org/svnweb/Catalyst/browse/trunk/examples or
svn co http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/repos/Catalyst/trunk/examples/


More examples welcome. ping me on irc if you want something
committed to the repository.


_______________________________________________
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telebody at gmail

Feb 5, 2008, 12:34 AM

Post #15 of 16 (2503 views)
Permalink
Re: catalyst book [In reply to]

> *ahem*

Oops! Sorry. Will come back maybe when head rises above sea level.

Matt

_______________________________________________
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kieren at diment

Aug 28, 2009, 5:29 AM

Post #16 of 16 (1930 views)
Permalink
Re: Catalyst Book [In reply to]

On 28/08/2009, at 10:17 PM, Dami Laurent (PJ) wrote:

> Hi, I just started reading the book, I can do a review. Let me know
> where/when/how long.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Laurent Dami


Well in this case I specifically want to see it reviewed on slashdot,
because it's a big popular website (still) and slashcode is in a way
one of Catalyst's ancestors.

But in general the more reviews the better in any case (e.g.
Amazon.com, or on your blog).

_______________________________________________
List: Catalyst [at] lists
Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst [at] lists/
Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/

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