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Catalyst Marketing Plan Draft

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johncwang at gmail

Oct 19, 2006, 1:07 PM

Post #26 of 44 (2621 views)
Permalink

Re: Catalyst Marketing Plan Draft [In reply to]

On 10/19/06, J. Shirley <jshirley [at] gmail> wrote:
>
> Any interest in creating a XUL slideshow template that is based off of
> some of the new website designs (or the existing design) to solidify
> the display?

I haven't had time to look into theming XUL templates but it would be
interesting to try. Most of the ones I've seen have been pretty basic, e.g.
no background graphics. It would be cool to have one with the cat logo
grayed out in the background. Anyone know how to do that?

--
John Wang
http://www.dev411.com/blog/

jon at jrock

Oct 19, 2006, 1:47 PM

Post #27 of 44 (2614 views)
Permalink

Re: TTSite++ [In reply to]

The only thing that's really holding me back is deciding on a namespace
to put my fixes in. The original TTSite isn't under our control, I
don't think, so suggestions for names would be appreciated (as the
author of "Angerwhale", I'm no longer legally allowed to name software
projects ;)

> Although I was planning for it to be more generic than just a Catalyst
> component (i.e. so you can use it to generate static sites), it makes a lot of
> sense to develop it with the specific aim of working with Catalyst.
>
> So consider me volunteered (although not for another month or so).

Thanks! I have no problems with trying to make things generic... I
think that's always a good idea.

For now, I'm going to work on integrating TTSite with Catalyst a bit
nicer (config file, helpers, etc.), and from there we can start
integrating some more templates and styles.

Regards,
Jonathan Rockway

--
package JAPH;use Catalyst qw/-Debug/;($;=JAPH)->config(name => do {
$,.=reverse qw[Jonathan tsu rehton lre rekca Rockway][$_].[split //,
";$;"]->[$_].q; ;for 1..4;$,=~s;^.;;;$,});$;->setup;

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jshirley at gmail

Oct 19, 2006, 2:25 PM

Post #28 of 44 (2609 views)
Permalink

Re: Catalyst Marketing Plan Draft [In reply to]

I'll poke at it, seems fun. Do we have any desired template?

On 10/19/06, John Wang <johncwang [at] gmail> wrote:
> On 10/19/06, J. Shirley <jshirley [at] gmail> wrote:
> > Any interest in creating a XUL slideshow template that is based off of
> > some of the new website designs (or the existing design) to solidify
> > the display?
>
> I haven't had time to look into theming XUL templates but it would be
> interesting to try. Most of the ones I've seen have been pretty basic, e.g.
> no background graphics. It would be cool to have one with the cat logo
> grayed out in the background. Anyone know how to do that?
>
> --
>
> John Wang
> http://www.dev411.com/blog/
> _______________________________________________
> Catalyst-dev mailing list
> Catalyst-dev [at] lists
> http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst-dev
>
>
>

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jon at jrock

Oct 19, 2006, 2:43 PM

Post #29 of 44 (2617 views)
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Re: Catalyst Marketing Plan Draft [In reply to]

BTW, in case you haven't looked at HTML Slidy (from the author of HTML
Tidy):

http://www.w3.org/Talks/Tools/Slidy/

I like this approach since it's just XHTML + javascript.

J. Shirley wrote:
> I'll poke at it, seems fun. Do we have any desired template?
>
> On 10/19/06, John Wang <johncwang [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On 10/19/06, J. Shirley <jshirley [at] gmail> wrote:
>>> Any interest in creating a XUL slideshow template that is based off of
>>> some of the new website designs (or the existing design) to solidify
>>> the display?
>> I haven't had time to look into theming XUL templates but it would be
>> interesting to try. Most of the ones I've seen have been pretty basic, e.g.
>> no background graphics. It would be cool to have one with the cat logo
>> grayed out in the background. Anyone know how to do that?

--
package JAPH;use Catalyst qw/-Debug/;($;=JAPH)->config(name => do {
$,.=reverse qw[Jonathan tsu rehton lre rekca Rockway][$_].[split //,
";$;"]->[$_].q; ;for 1..4;$,=~s;^.;;;$,});$;->setup;

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johncwang at gmail

Oct 19, 2006, 2:56 PM

Post #30 of 44 (2605 views)
Permalink

Re: Catalyst Marketing Plan Draft [In reply to]

On 10/19/06, Jonathan Rockway <jon [at] jrock> wrote:
>
> BTW, in case you haven't looked at HTML Slidy (from the author of HTML
> Tidy):
>
> http://www.w3.org/Talks/Tools/Slidy/
>
> I like this approach since it's just XHTML + javascript.

How do you go backwards with Slidy? With XUL you just right click to go
backwards.

XUL is just XML + javascript ;)

--
John Wang
http://www.dev411.com/blog/

jshirley at gmail

Oct 19, 2006, 3:34 PM

Post #31 of 44 (2607 views)
Permalink

Re: TTSite++ [In reply to]

My vote is for Elements.

If we want to make the name more tied to TT, how about Elementts?

On 10/19/06, Jonathan Rockway <jon [at] jrock> wrote:
> The only thing that's really holding me back is deciding on a namespace
> to put my fixes in. The original TTSite isn't under our control, I
> don't think, so suggestions for names would be appreciated (as the
> author of "Angerwhale", I'm no longer legally allowed to name software
> projects ;)
>
> > Although I was planning for it to be more generic than just a Catalyst
> > component (i.e. so you can use it to generate static sites), it makes a lot of
> > sense to develop it with the specific aim of working with Catalyst.
> >
> > So consider me volunteered (although not for another month or so).
>
> Thanks! I have no problems with trying to make things generic... I
> think that's always a good idea.
>
> For now, I'm going to work on integrating TTSite with Catalyst a bit
> nicer (config file, helpers, etc.), and from there we can start
> integrating some more templates and styles.
>
> Regards,
> Jonathan Rockway
>
> --
> package JAPH;use Catalyst qw/-Debug/;($;=JAPH)->config(name => do {
> $,.=reverse qw[Jonathan tsu rehton lre rekca Rockway][$_].[split //,
> ";$;"]->[$_].q; ;for 1..4;$,=~s;^.;;;$,});$;->setup;
>
> _______________________________________________
> Catalyst-dev mailing list
> Catalyst-dev [at] lists
> http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst-dev
>

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jon at jrock

Oct 19, 2006, 3:35 PM

Post #32 of 44 (2622 views)
Permalink

Re: Catalyst Marketing Plan Draft [In reply to]

> XUL is just XML + javascript ;)

Right, but I already have an XHTML user agent. I don't have an XUL
user-agent (currently in memory, anyway) :)

The less complex something is, the better.

--
package JAPH;use Catalyst qw/-Debug/;($;=JAPH)->config(name => do {
$,.=reverse qw[Jonathan tsu rehton lre rekca Rockway][$_].[split //,
";$;"]->[$_].q; ;for 1..4;$,=~s;^.;;;$,});$;->setup;

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zzbbyy at gmail

Oct 19, 2006, 11:06 PM

Post #33 of 44 (2626 views)
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Re: Catalyst Marketing Plan Draft [In reply to]

Hi,

Going back to the marketing document I see one more thing that can be
added there - some introduction why we at all need this marketing.
Based on this we could deduce who should we market to etc.

Top of head reasons that can be added there:
- hosting companies should treat Catalyst as a serious framework and
make life easier for those using it
- more people working on Catalyst add ons
- more users of Catalyst means better testing

There are also disadvantages - more people working with Catalyst means
APIs need to be more static, any change would involve much more
communication between parties etc.

--
Zbyszek

On 10/17/06, John Wang <johncwang [at] gmail> wrote:
> The Catalyst project has created a marketing team in addition to the dev and
> doc teams. Currently jshirley and I are in marketing and anyone else who is
> interested is welcome to join. Marketing serves to promote the product
> (including docs) so it's important everyone is on the same page. My
> intention is for marketing tasks to be defined the Marketing Plan and agreed
> upon with the dev and doc teams. Once there is agreement, marketing can
> start executing against the plan.
>
> I've put together a plan in a MS Word doc that I've attached and paraphrased
> below. Basically we need to come to agreement on some high level decisions
> before any action can be taken. For now, I'm using MS Word because I like
> and am used to their outline numbering system. I can make it available in
> PDF if preferred. I paraphrased the content in this email this time around
> and will probably continue to do so for things that need decisions but the
> intention is for the full plan to live in that document.
>
> The tasks include defining the target audience and the product.
>
> 1) Which of the following groups should be the target audience:
> 1.1) All web application developers including non-OO PHP and Rails
> 1.2 ) MVC/OO framework developers
> 1.3) All Perl devs
> 1.4) Perl devs with a clue
>
> We need agreement on this because it has been debated as to what types of
> users Catalyst wants to attract, if any. People will have their individual
> opinions but we need Catalyst dev+doc+mktg to come to an agreement and for
> all three groups to accept that target audience as a driver in goal setting.
>
> I think Catalyst needs to target all web app developers but this means docs
> geared towards non-Perl users as well as making it easier for people to
> install without CPAN, etc. Because of this marketing cannot make this
> decision alone.
>
> How should we, as a group, decide on this?
>
> 2) What is the elevator pitch for Catalyst
>
> An "elevator pitch" is the short sales message you can tell soemone in an
> elevator ride to get them interested in your product. This will depend on
> who we decide is the target audience. I think it should be something along
> the lines of:
>
> "The most scalable and flexible web framework backed by the largest open
> source library"
>
> This is geared towards non-Perl users as well as management types. We have
> the users and the technology to back it up.
>
> 3) What is the Catalyst Solution Bundle
>
> People are interested in the entire solution not just the framework so while
> Cat is very flexible and has lots of options from a marketing perspective we
> need to start pushing one recommended solution. From a marketing perspective
> on the website, all these components will be marketed as part of the
> Catalyst solution while mentioning components can be swapped out.
>
> In the past, this was Task::Catalyst. The issues:
>
> 3.1) Can we get control of Task::Catalyst
> 3.2) Are these still the right components
> 3.3) There should be a recommended cache compoent
>
> The solution bundle will need to be supported by doc and dev to make the
> bundle as seamless and productive as possible.
>
> 4) Does the Catalyst solution need anything else to support the message
>
> If we are going to pitch Catalyst as a great solution, the product needs to
> match the expectations generated:
>
> 4.1) If we decide to target non-Perl users, can we make the Catalyst
> solution super easy to install for someone who doesn't know how to use CPAN?
> Should have Cat easily installed into a MyApp/vendor directory?
> 4.2) Built-in caching that you can just turn on seems to be a selling
> feature for other frameworks. While Cat has plugins, should we have a
> recommended plugin and the ability to just turn it on and have the Cat app
> save cached content to a MyApp/tmp/cache directory?
> 4.3) Documentation on writing tests for Cat apps. One of the big features
> of frameworks is that they make you use better coding practices including
> writing tests. I think we need some recommendations and documentation on how
> to write common tests for Cat apps using Test::Class, Test::MockObject and
> the like. Right now we have the source for existing tests and POD for
> Test::WWW::(Mechanize|Selenium)::Catalyst. Should have have
> tutorials on using these?
>
> Is there anything else?
>
> The information in this email is a parapharsing of a MS Word doc I put
> together and am attaching. It's also available at:
>
> http://www.dev411.com/catalyst/CatalystMarketingPlan_draft.doc
>
> Let me know what you think of the above and how we should come to concensus.
>
> --
> John Wang
> http://www.dev411.com/blog/
> _______________________________________________
> Catalyst-dev mailing list
> Catalyst-dev [at] lists
> http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst-dev
>
>
>
>

--
Zbigniew Lukasiak
http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/

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ash at cpan

Oct 20, 2006, 2:46 AM

Post #34 of 44 (2621 views)
Permalink

Re: TTSite++ [In reply to]

My vote would be to avoid "clever" names like Elementts - always a
danger of people thinking its just a typo.

Of course to combat this it could be ElemenTTs but my vote is still for
Elements <-- plain, simple yet conveys something.

Ash

J. Shirley wrote:
> My vote is for Elements.
>
> If we want to make the name more tied to TT, how about Elementts?
>
>
> On 10/19/06, Jonathan Rockway <jon [at] jrock> wrote:
>> The only thing that's really holding me back is deciding on a namespace
>> to put my fixes in. The original TTSite isn't under our control, I
>> don't think, so suggestions for names would be appreciated (as the
>> author of "Angerwhale", I'm no longer legally allowed to name software
>> projects ;)
>>
>>> Although I was planning for it to be more generic than just a Catalyst
>>> component (i.e. so you can use it to generate static sites), it makes a lot of
>>> sense to develop it with the specific aim of working with Catalyst.
>>>
>>> So consider me volunteered (although not for another month or so).
>> Thanks! I have no problems with trying to make things generic... I
>> think that's always a good idea.
>>
>> For now, I'm going to work on integrating TTSite with Catalyst a bit
>> nicer (config file, helpers, etc.), and from there we can start
>> integrating some more templates and styles.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jonathan Rockway
>>
>> --
>> package JAPH;use Catalyst qw/-Debug/;($;=JAPH)->config(name => do {
>> $,.=reverse qw[Jonathan tsu rehton lre rekca Rockway][$_].[split //,
>> ";$;"]->[$_].q; ;for 1..4;$,=~s;^.;;;$,});$;->setup;
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Catalyst-dev mailing list
>> Catalyst-dev [at] lists
>> http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst-dev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Catalyst-dev mailing list
> Catalyst-dev [at] lists
> http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst-dev

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pagaltzis at gmx

Oct 20, 2006, 10:16 AM

Post #35 of 44 (2617 views)
Permalink

Re: TTSite++ [In reply to]

* Ash Berlin <ash [at] cpan> [2006-10-20 11:50]:
> My vote would be to avoid "clever" names like Elementts
> - always a danger of people thinking its just a typo.
>
> Of course to combat this it could be ElemenTTs but my vote is
> still for Elements <-- plain, simple yet conveys something.

Plain, simple, and completely ungooglable.

Regards,
--
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>

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jon at jrock

Oct 20, 2006, 10:31 AM

Post #36 of 44 (2610 views)
Permalink

Re: TTSite++ [In reply to]

Exactly. Do a search for "Catalyst" and you'd have no idea our
framework even exists. Do a search for "Plagger" or "Angerwhale" and
100% of the results are relevant. Same goes for with delicious and
technorati.

Of course, people are unable to spell elements correctly, so ElemenTTs
already has 3000 results. *sigh*.

Interestingly "rails" is a common word too, but all the results are RoR.
*sigh again* :) Google is always interesting.

A. Pagaltzis wrote:
> * Ash Berlin <ash [at] cpan> [2006-10-20 11:50]:
>> My vote would be to avoid "clever" names like Elementts
>> - always a danger of people thinking its just a typo.
>>
>> Of course to combat this it could be ElemenTTs but my vote is
>> still for Elements <-- plain, simple yet conveys something.
>
> Plain, simple, and completely ungooglable.
>
> Regards,

--
package JAPH;use Catalyst qw/-Debug/;($;=JAPH)->config(name => do {
$,.=reverse qw[Jonathan tsu rehton lre rekca Rockway][$_].[split //,
";$;"]->[$_].q; ;for 1..4;$,=~s;^.;;;$,});$;->setup;

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kiki at bsdro

Oct 20, 2006, 11:37 AM

Post #37 of 44 (2632 views)
Permalink

Re: TTSite++ [In reply to]

Jonathan Rockway wrote:
> Exactly. Do a search for "Catalyst" and you'd have no idea our
> framework even exists. Do a search for "Plagger" or "Angerwhale" and
> 100% of the results are relevant. Same goes for with delicious and
> technorati.
>
> Of course, people are unable to spell elements correctly, so ElemenTTs
> already has 3000 results. *sigh*.
>
> Interestingly "rails" is a common word too, but all the results are RoR.
> *sigh again* :) Google is always interesting.
>
Yes, the miracle of Google Search Results.

OTOH, the RoR website has a GoogleRank of 8 (with 186000 backlinks),
while the Catalyst website has a GoogleRank of 7 (with only 1330
backlinks)...

The bottomline is that a little SEO wouldn't hurt... esp. since IMO, the
website design is due for an overhaul
(the trac site too, but that's a different beast)

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johncwang at gmail

Oct 20, 2006, 11:39 AM

Post #38 of 44 (2638 views)
Permalink

Re: Catalyst Marketing Plan Draft [In reply to]

On 10/19/06, Zbigniew Lukasiak <zzbbyy [at] gmail> wrote:
>
> Going back to the marketing document I see one more thing that can be
> added there - some introduction why we at all need this marketing.

Thanks for bringing up the topic of goals. Setting the explictly will ensure
everyone is using the same assumptions as to what we are trying to achieve.
My view is that marketing serves the stakeholders and for the Catalyst
project I view the stakeholders as:

Catalyst Stakeholders:
- Catalyst project users (includes contributors)

Based on this I think the top goals these stakeholders would like to achieve
via marketing is:

Top Level Goals
- More Catalyst jobs
- More contributions to Catalyst

Jobs includes both corporations hiring directly employees as well as
outsourcing. Contributions to Catalyst includes code, tests, documentation,
bug reporting, blog articles, screen casts and the like.

From these top goals we can create a tree of requirements:

+ More Catalyst jobs
| + More organizations using Catalyst
| + Proven capability, scalability, productivity, etc.
| | + Case studies, blog articles, presentations
| | + Best of breed component selection/integration
| | while remaining flexible for enterprise needs
| + More Catalyst developers
| | + More Catalyst buzz, excitement
| | | + More Catalyst blog activity
| | | + More screen casts
| | | + More PM/YAPC/OSCON presentations
| | + Effective low cost hosting
| | + Easier to learn and use
| | | + Centralized API reference
| | | + Easy themeability
| | + Sufficient numbers of Perl developers
| | + More Perl buzz (hopefully accomplished via Cat buzz)
| + Improve Perl reputation
+ More contributions to Catalyst
+ More Catalyst developers
| ... (see above)
+ More organizations using Catalyst
... (see above)

This can and will be extended with types of organizations and types of
developers as has been mentioned already on this list. This and extra
details will be included in the next version of the marketing plan document.
This structure will allow us to prioritize things and balance efforts to
make sure we don't lose sight of the larger picture and goals. It also
allows us to trace all marketing activities back to the two goals for the
Catalyst user stakeholders: more jobs and more contributions.

There are also disadvantages - more people working with Catalyst means
> APIs need to be more static, any change would involve much more
> communication between parties etc.

The team decided to make the APIs more stable a while ago and there are
already many commercial projects using Catalyst that rely on this promise of
stability. This is documented in Catalyst::Manual::DevelopmentProcess .

--
John Wang
http://www.dev411.com/blog/

johncwang at gmail

Oct 20, 2006, 12:08 PM

Post #39 of 44 (2622 views)
Permalink

Re: Catalyst Marketing Plan Draft [In reply to]

On 10/20/06, John Wang <johncwang [at] gmail> wrote:
>
> On 10/19/06, Zbigniew Lukasiak <zzbbyy [at] gmail> wrote:
> >
> > Going back to the marketing document I see one more thing that can be
> > added there - some introduction why we at all need this marketing.
>
>
> <snip> ... From these top goals we can create a tree of requirements:
>

I've put this list on EditGrid (built using Catalyst) for reference:

http://www.editgrid.com/user/CatalystMktg/Catalyst_Marketing_Activity_List

--
John Wang
http://www.dev411.com/blog/

dbix-class at trout

Oct 20, 2006, 1:08 PM

Post #40 of 44 (2618 views)
Permalink

Re: TTSite++ [In reply to]

Jonathan Rockway wrote:
> Exactly. Do a search for "Catalyst" and you'd have no idea our
> framework even exists. Do a search for "Plagger" or "Angerwhale" and
> 100% of the results are relevant. Same goes for with delicious and
> technorati.

I've always liked the idea of calling it after a specific catalyst - e.g.
Platinum or whatever ...

--
Matt S Trout Offering custom development, consultancy and support
Technical Director contracts for Catalyst, DBIx::Class and BAST. Contact
Shadowcat Systems Ltd. mst (at) shadowcatsystems.co.uk for more information

+ Help us build a better perl ORM: http://dbix-class.shadowcatsystems.co.uk/ +

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taylor.andrew.j at gmail

Oct 20, 2006, 2:49 PM

Post #41 of 44 (2614 views)
Permalink

Re: TTSite++ [In reply to]

On 10/20/06, Matt S Trout <dbix-class [at] trout> wrote:
>
> I've always liked the idea of calling it after a specific catalyst - e.g.
> Platinum or whatever ...
I like it! ++

Drew
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Drew Taylor * Web development & consulting
Email: drew [at] drewtaylor * Site implementation & hosting
Web : www.drewtaylor.com * perl/mod_perl/DBI/mysql/postgres
----------------------------------------------------------------

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mromani at ottotecnica

Nov 6, 2006, 12:59 AM

Post #42 of 44 (2581 views)
Permalink

Re: Catalyst Marketing Plan Draft [In reply to]

John Wang ha scritto:
> On 10/20/06, *John Wang* <johncwang [at] gmail
> <mailto:johncwang [at] gmail>> wrote:
>
> On 10/19/06, *Zbigniew Lukasiak* <zzbbyy [at] gmail
> <mailto:zzbbyy [at] gmail>> wrote:
>
> Going back to the marketing document I see one more thing that
> can be
> added there - some introduction why we at all need this marketing.
>
>
> <snip> ... From these top goals we can create a tree of requirements:
>
>
> I've put this list on EditGrid (built using Catalyst) for reference:
>
> http://www.editgrid.com/user/CatalystMktg/Catalyst_Marketing_Activity_List
> <http://www.editgrid.com/user/CatalystMktg/Catalyst_Marketing_Activity_List>

Ehm,

"Sorry, nothing is here.
Please check the URL for proper spelling. If you're having trouble
locating a destination that you are looking for, try visiting our home
page. "

:-)

>
> --
> John Wang
> http://www.dev411.com/blog/
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Catalyst-dev mailing list
> Catalyst-dev [at] lists
> http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst-dev

--
Marcello Romani
Responsabile IT
Ottotecnica s.r.l.
http://www.ottotecnica.com

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hkclark at gmail

Nov 6, 2006, 5:33 AM

Post #43 of 44 (2570 views)
Permalink

Re: Catalyst Marketing Plan Draft [In reply to]

On 10/17/06, John Wang <johncwang [at] gmail> wrote:
> The Catalyst project has created a marketing team in addition to the dev and
> doc teams. Currently jshirley and I are in marketing and anyone else who is
> interested is welcome to join. Marketing serves to promote the product
> (including docs) so it's important everyone is on the same page. My
> intention is for marketing tasks to be defined the Marketing Plan and agreed
> upon with the dev and doc teams. Once there is agreement, marketing can
> start executing against the plan.
>

Hi John & jshirley,

Many thanks for doing this -- it's a great idea.

I have been lurking on the thread trying to collect my thoughts on the
subject. Here is what I have so far:

* I think a big part of the initial interest in Rails was generated by
the really good demo movies they came out with. I think we should
come up with at least one of those with a similar degree of polish. I
volunteer to help.

* I think the recent reports about Catalyst being significantly slower
than Rails could be a real deterrent for new users. Yes, I know that
there are many other factors that need to be considered besides raw
transactions per second, but if word gets out that "Catalyst is slow"
it could really hinder Catalyst adoption (how many of our clients want
us using a framework that's is both "less hyped" *and* slower?). I
think there are two main parts to addressing this:
1) Code: Look for was to optimize Catalyst and reduce bottlenecks.
2) Analysis: Drill down into the analysis to answer questions such as:
- What types of things are faster in Rails?
- What types of things are faster in Cat?
- Does one favor larger vs. smaller vs. other types of apps?
- What about if database ORM is taken into account (could DBIC make
up for "slowness" in Cat to get things back on par)?
Unfortunately, I don't know enough Rails to add much value to this item.

* I agree with others on the thread who state: while the flexibility
of Catalyst should be emphasized, there should be a "recommended way
of doing things" for most applications. To much talk of options up
front will turn people off before they ever ramp up.

* Articles, books, blogs, and talks. The Rails team is a "machine"
when it comes to this area. I know this has been talked about
previously in this thread, but I figured it was worth restating. For
example, I think we should approach O'Reilly again about a Catalyst
book. Also, would it be possible to get some high profile Catalyst
folks to participate in the No Fluff, Just Stuff tour? I know we
already have some coverage at the various YAPCs, but one can never do
too much of that.

* I liked the idea of having some canned VMWare images where people
could grab the image and instantly get going with trying out Catalyst
(http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/community). There
was some talk about this around 6 months ago, but I don't think it
ever went anywhere. I think I could help with a CentOS image.

Just my 2 cents,
Kennedy

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jshirley at gmail

Nov 6, 2006, 9:46 AM

Post #44 of 44 (2579 views)
Permalink

Re: Catalyst Marketing Plan Draft [In reply to]

On 11/6/06, hkclark [at] gmail <hkclark [at] gmail> wrote:
> On 10/17/06, John Wang <johncwang [at] gmail> wrote:
> > The Catalyst project has created a marketing team in addition to the dev and
> > doc teams. Currently jshirley and I are in marketing and anyone else who is
> > interested is welcome to join. Marketing serves to promote the product
> > (including docs) so it's important everyone is on the same page. My
> > intention is for marketing tasks to be defined the Marketing Plan and agreed
> > upon with the dev and doc teams. Once there is agreement, marketing can
> > start executing against the plan.
> >
>
> Hi John & jshirley,
>
> Many thanks for doing this -- it's a great idea.
>
> I have been lurking on the thread trying to collect my thoughts on the
> subject. Here is what I have so far:
>
> * I think a big part of the initial interest in Rails was generated by
> the really good demo movies they came out with. I think we should
> come up with at least one of those with a similar degree of polish. I
> volunteer to help.
>
> * I think the recent reports about Catalyst being significantly slower
> than Rails could be a real deterrent for new users. Yes, I know that
> there are many other factors that need to be considered besides raw
> transactions per second, but if word gets out that "Catalyst is slow"
> it could really hinder Catalyst adoption (how many of our clients want
> us using a framework that's is both "less hyped" *and* slower?). I
> think there are two main parts to addressing this:
> 1) Code: Look for was to optimize Catalyst and reduce bottlenecks.
> 2) Analysis: Drill down into the analysis to answer questions such as:
> - What types of things are faster in Rails?
> - What types of things are faster in Cat?
> - Does one favor larger vs. smaller vs. other types of apps?
> - What about if database ORM is taken into account (could DBIC make
> up for "slowness" in Cat to get things back on par)?
> Unfortunately, I don't know enough Rails to add much value to this item.
>
> * I agree with others on the thread who state: while the flexibility
> of Catalyst should be emphasized, there should be a "recommended way
> of doing things" for most applications. To much talk of options up
> front will turn people off before they ever ramp up.
>
> * Articles, books, blogs, and talks. The Rails team is a "machine"
> when it comes to this area. I know this has been talked about
> previously in this thread, but I figured it was worth restating. For
> example, I think we should approach O'Reilly again about a Catalyst
> book. Also, would it be possible to get some high profile Catalyst
> folks to participate in the No Fluff, Just Stuff tour? I know we
> already have some coverage at the various YAPCs, but one can never do
> too much of that.
>
> * I liked the idea of having some canned VMWare images where people
> could grab the image and instantly get going with trying out Catalyst
> (http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/community). There
> was some talk about this around 6 months ago, but I don't think it
> ever went anywhere. I think I could help with a CentOS image.
>
> Just my 2 cents,
> Kennedy
>

Hey Kennedy,

I'm working on some screencasts now and have the test apps pretty
stable (msg me on IRC if you want to see them). I'm waiting on the
next maintenance release, and the new site design until they go out.
I'll possibly get them put together, but I wanted to do a screencast
on installing Catalyst along with it, but I may not wait for that,
since I think the screencasts showing the usage of Catalyst are more
important.

Neil, the author of iShowU graciously donated a license for iShowU to
the Catalyst project as well. Let me know if you want the information
to start doing your own casts (although the software is OSX only)

-Jay

--
J. Shirley :: jshirley [at] gmail :: Killing two stones with one bird...
http://www.toeat.com - http://code.toeat.com/~jshirley

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