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8 months later - not even on 1st base

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bric at flight

Jul 13, 2011, 5:42 PM

Post #1 of 28 (1419 views)
Permalink

8 months later - not even on 1st base

Amazingly, over the last 8 or 9 months, i've returned to bricolage to try to
get a "Hello World" that amounts to at least one properly template-burned and
FTP-ed page to some server space....

upon countless attempt trying to do this, read the forum, other documentations,
I still fail to understand the most rudimentary underpinnings of Bricolage: Its
jargon and taxonomy and its chains and trees of elements and administrative
procedures needed to produce one single solitary page.

Most notably I still have not a shred of clue how to edit a template, how to
import one, and how exactly it fits in the scheme.
Among other frustrating show-stoppers here's one I just encountered:

I am trying to create a new story and I get "Please select a story type". This
alert comes up with a replacement screen where my input (from previous screen)
has been wiped out. Furthermore, the "Story Type" line has nothing but the
prompt "Story Type". So I can't select a story type -- the selection widget is
missing. Instead of the presumed, expected drop-down list there is NOTHING.

I've gotten other bewildering absences of dropdown list, elsewhere. I can't
remember which exactly -- it was either the inability to select multiple
destinations to workflows (missing dropdown box, inspite of the prompts
suggesting there should be one), or multiple something else attached to
something ... in the (pardon the word and the perception) "byzantine" chain
(labyrinth!) of workflows, destinations, stories, sites, templates, etc. etc.

I am very willing and ready to take heavy lashing here, from Bricolage pros who
would like to disabuse me of this "byzantine" perception I am having. Just
please understand that it's been many many months of periodic attempts to accede
to SOME type of bricolage productivity -- each attempt stopping completely dead
in its tracks -- hopefully only due to my ignorance.

please help!

tia

catalyst at mikeraynham

Jul 13, 2011, 9:32 PM

Post #2 of 28 (1390 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

Hi Tia,

I'm sorry to read about the problems that you have been having with
Bricolage. I started to experiment with it a few months ago when I found
that other systems couldn't do what I wanted.

I'm by no means a pro, but I have recently gone through the rather steep
learning curve associated with installing and getting to know Bricolage. My
advice is don't give up. It's a great system with a genuinely friendly and
helpful community who should be able to help with even the most complex of
Bricolage tasks.

I have had to put my Bricolage work on hold recently due to a number of
other concerns. However, I did start work on some new documentation, and
reorganising some of the existing documentation, in the Bricolage 2.0
section of the wiki:

https://github.com/bricoleurs/bricolage/wiki/Bricolage-2.0

I plan on writing a complete guide to creating a website from start to
finish in Bricolage, but time is not on my side at the moment.

One of the problems I found with Bricolage is that until you understand some
of the terminology and why the system works the way it does, it hard to get
any further. It sometimes feels like Catch 22. My learning curve was
punctuated with a few periods of confusion, followed by eurkeka moments.
Once it clicks, things start to fall into place. I think this is true of any
system of this size and flexibility.

Yes, there's quite a lot of setup required before even a single page can be
produced, but once you've done it a few times, it becomes surprisingly quick
and easy. But it's because it's so flexible that so many procedures have to
be carried out before a simple page can be produced.

Missing dropdown lists are a sign that you have either not created an
associated element, template or other key component - perhaps you have
deleted something that is part of the default installation and not created a
suitable replacement. I made this mistake at first - I "cleaned up" the
default installation before I really understood what it was that I was
removing, and how I should replace it. If you are doing something similar,
try instead to just create something with the default set of elements, so
you understand how it all fits together. It doesn't matter if it's nothing
like the site that you actually want to produce. Once you've gone through
the process a few times, it will become clearer.

Something you could try is installing the system as a virtual machine
image. I use Ubuntu 10.04 on VirtualBox. This allows me to install a fresh
copy of the OS and Bricolage, and then take a snapshot image of the base
installation. From there, I can experiment to the point of utter
destruction, and then simply revert to a fresh installation. I find that
the process of repeating those steps that I've already learned very helpful
- they soon become second nature.

I'm not at my computer at the moment, but when I get chance, I'll have a
look through my notes and see if I have anything that might be of use. I
think I've got a rough set of notes that I hope to build into a publishing
with Bricolage how-to. If so, I'll email it to you.

Anyway, good luck. I'm sure others on the list will be able to provide more
detailed answers to some of your specific questions.

Regards,

Mike

john at j2d3

Jul 13, 2011, 10:05 PM

Post #3 of 28 (1387 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

speaking from my cellphone with speech to text I only want to echo mikes
sentiments and let you know that I am working hard on creating amazon ec 2
image of bric in order to make at least the installation part of bric a
little easier to get beyond. it remains the very best content management
system that is open source. the learning curve is very steep, but the
rewards are great if you can stick it out.

On Jul 13, 2011 9:32 PM, "Mike Raynham" <catalyst [at] mikeraynham> wrote:

Hi Tia,

I'm sorry to read about the problems that you have been having with
Bricolage. I started to experiment with it a few months ago when I found
that other systems couldn't do what I wanted.

I'm by no means a pro, but I have recently gone through the rather steep
learning curve associated with installing and getting to know Bricolage. My
advice is don't give up. It's a great system with a genuinely friendly and
helpful community who should be able to help with even the most complex of
Bricolage tasks.

I have had to put my Bricolage work on hold recently due to a number of
other concerns. However, I did start work on some new documentation, and
reorganising some of the existing documentation, in the Bricolage 2.0
section of the wiki:

https://github.com/bricoleurs/bricolage/wiki/Bricolage-2.0

I plan on writing a complete guide to creating a website from start to
finish in Bricolage, but time is not on my side at the moment.

One of the problems I found with Bricolage is that until you understand some
of the terminology and why the system works the way it does, it hard to get
any further. It sometimes feels like Catch 22. My learning curve was
punctuated with a few periods of confusion, followed by eurkeka moments.
Once it clicks, things start to fall into place. I think this is true of any
system of this size and flexibility.

Yes, there's quite a lot of setup required before even a single page can be
produced, but once you've done it a few times, it becomes surprisingly quick
and easy. But it's because it's so flexible that so many procedures have to
be carried out before a simple page can be produced.

Missing dropdown lists are a sign that you have either not created an
associated element, template or other key component - perhaps you have
deleted something that is part of the default installation and not created a
suitable replacement. I made this mistake at first - I "cleaned up" the
default installation before I really understood what it was that I was
removing, and how I should replace it. If you are doing something similar,
try instead to just create something with the default set of elements, so
you understand how it all fits together. It doesn't matter if it's nothing
like the site that you actually want to produce. Once you've gone through
the process a few times, it will become clearer.

Something you could try is installing the system as a virtual machine
image. I use Ubuntu 10.04 on VirtualBox. This allows me to install a fresh
copy of the OS and Bricolage, and then take a snapshot image of the base
installation. From there, I can experiment to the point of utter
destruction, and then simply revert to a fresh installation. I find that
the process of repeating those steps that I've already learned very helpful
- they soon become second nature.

I'm not at my computer at the moment, but when I get chance, I'll have a
look through my notes and see if I have anything that might be of use. I
think I've got a rough set of notes that I hope to build into a publishing
with Bricolage how-to. If so, I'll email it to you.

Anyway, good luck. I'm sure others on the list will be able to provide more
detailed answers to some of your specific questions.

Regards,

Mike

bret at pectopah

Jul 14, 2011, 9:02 AM

Post #4 of 28 (1377 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

Let me chime in here as well.

Yes, Bricolage can be tough to wrap your head around. All the pipes and
nozzles (element types, subelement types, output channels, destinations,
categories, etc.) do make it a complicated application.

Those are also the same things that make it so powerful.

Here are a few things to remember, though:

1. Installation is the hardest part. If you've already got the interface
in front of you, you can feel comfortable that things are about to get
easier.

2. The community really knows its stuff. There are lots of people on the
lists who are very familiar with Bricolage. They're friendly, too. It's
OK to ask questions.

3. You will be 100% blown away at what this thing can do.

4. That is probably enough things to remember. But it is really OK to
ask questions.

Hope this helps,

Bret

On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 22:05 -0700, John Durkin wrote:
> speaking from my cellphone with speech to text I only want to echo mikes
> sentiments and let you know that I am working hard on creating amazon ec 2
> image of bric in order to make at least the installation part of bric a
> little easier to get beyond. it remains the very best content management
> system that is open source. the learning curve is very steep, but the
> rewards are great if you can stick it out.
>
> On Jul 13, 2011 9:32 PM, "Mike Raynham" <catalyst [at] mikeraynham> wrote:
>
> Hi Tia,
>
> I'm sorry to read about the problems that you have been having with
> Bricolage. I started to experiment with it a few months ago when I found
> that other systems couldn't do what I wanted.
>
> I'm by no means a pro, but I have recently gone through the rather steep
> learning curve associated with installing and getting to know Bricolage. My
> advice is don't give up. It's a great system with a genuinely friendly and
> helpful community who should be able to help with even the most complex of
> Bricolage tasks.
>
> I have had to put my Bricolage work on hold recently due to a number of
> other concerns. However, I did start work on some new documentation, and
> reorganising some of the existing documentation, in the Bricolage 2.0
> section of the wiki:
>
> https://github.com/bricoleurs/bricolage/wiki/Bricolage-2.0
>
> I plan on writing a complete guide to creating a website from start to
> finish in Bricolage, but time is not on my side at the moment.
>
> One of the problems I found with Bricolage is that until you understand some
> of the terminology and why the system works the way it does, it hard to get
> any further. It sometimes feels like Catch 22. My learning curve was
> punctuated with a few periods of confusion, followed by eurkeka moments.
> Once it clicks, things start to fall into place. I think this is true of any
> system of this size and flexibility.
>
> Yes, there's quite a lot of setup required before even a single page can be
> produced, but once you've done it a few times, it becomes surprisingly quick
> and easy. But it's because it's so flexible that so many procedures have to
> be carried out before a simple page can be produced.
>
> Missing dropdown lists are a sign that you have either not created an
> associated element, template or other key component - perhaps you have
> deleted something that is part of the default installation and not created a
> suitable replacement. I made this mistake at first - I "cleaned up" the
> default installation before I really understood what it was that I was
> removing, and how I should replace it. If you are doing something similar,
> try instead to just create something with the default set of elements, so
> you understand how it all fits together. It doesn't matter if it's nothing
> like the site that you actually want to produce. Once you've gone through
> the process a few times, it will become clearer.
>
> Something you could try is installing the system as a virtual machine
> image. I use Ubuntu 10.04 on VirtualBox. This allows me to install a fresh
> copy of the OS and Bricolage, and then take a snapshot image of the base
> installation. From there, I can experiment to the point of utter
> destruction, and then simply revert to a fresh installation. I find that
> the process of repeating those steps that I've already learned very helpful
> - they soon become second nature.
>
> I'm not at my computer at the moment, but when I get chance, I'll have a
> look through my notes and see if I have anything that might be of use. I
> think I've got a rough set of notes that I hope to build into a publishing
> with Bricolage how-to. If so, I'll email it to you.
>
> Anyway, good luck. I'm sure others on the list will be able to provide more
> detailed answers to some of your specific questions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike

--
Bret Dawson
Producer
Pectopah Productions Inc.
(416) 895-7635
bret [at] pectopah
www.pectopah.com

paulo at digitalcraftsmen

Jul 18, 2011, 7:21 AM

Post #5 of 28 (1368 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

Hi,

This actually sounds like your Bricolage installation has failed in some
way or has been changed in a way that won't allow you to things properly
as your user.

Is this Bricolage installed from scratch or is it a downloaded VM from
the options here : http://bricolagecms.org/downloads/ ? If you've
installed it, what OS and Bricolage version are you using ?

In terms of out of the box assuming you're using the "local preview
server" option in the config, you should be able to login as admin,
create a new story with a page or two and preview it without having to
change anything. It should just work, if it doesn't then we're here to
help.

Where the templates and elements fit together, with sub elements, media,
output channels etc does take a while to master, but once you do, it's
amazing how powerful the system is.

regards,

Paul

On 14/07/2011 01:42, Bric wrote:
> Amazingly, over the last 8 or 9 months, i've returned to bricolage to try to
> get a "Hello World" that amounts to at least one properly template-burned and
> FTP-ed page to some server space....
>
> upon countless attempt trying to do this, read the forum, other documentations,
> I still fail to understand the most rudimentary underpinnings of Bricolage: Its
> jargon and taxonomy and its chains and trees of elements and administrative
> procedures needed to produce one single solitary page.
>
> Most notably I still have not a shred of clue how to edit a template, how to
> import one, and how exactly it fits in the scheme.
> Among other frustrating show-stoppers here's one I just encountered:
>
> I am trying to create a new story and I get "Please select a story type". This
> alert comes up with a replacement screen where my input (from previous screen)
> has been wiped out. Furthermore, the "Story Type" line has nothing but the
> prompt "Story Type". So I can't select a story type -- the selection widget is
> missing. Instead of the presumed, expected drop-down list there is NOTHING.
>
> I've gotten other bewildering absences of dropdown list, elsewhere. I can't
> remember which exactly -- it was either the inability to select multiple
> destinations to workflows (missing dropdown box, inspite of the prompts
> suggesting there should be one), or multiple something else attached to
> something ... in the (pardon the word and the perception) "byzantine" chain
> (labyrinth!) of workflows, destinations, stories, sites, templates, etc. etc.
>
> I am very willing and ready to take heavy lashing here, from Bricolage pros who
> would like to disabuse me of this "byzantine" perception I am having. Just
> please understand that it's been many many months of periodic attempts to accede
> to SOME type of bricolage productivity -- each attempt stopping completely dead
> in its tracks -- hopefully only due to my ignorance.
>
> please help!
>
> tia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

bric at flight

Jul 19, 2011, 12:38 PM

Post #6 of 28 (1359 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

Hi, guys.

Apologies for delaying to respond. (If/when bricolage becomes a main part of my
production, these gaps in correspondence will cease, of course. In the meantime,
alternative survival methods are impeding).

About the installation: I thought I got past the installation months ago. From
what Paul Orrock is saying, perhaps not. Maybe there are SILENT bricolage
installation failures? Such that, you install it, everything APPEARS to work, to
an untrained, novice eye, but it's not quite functional?

I don't know where to begin to check that. I can say that I've gotten some perl
errors since I began trying to use it.

As far as difficulty: Yes, it took me a while to install bricolage, and when I
succeeded I thought the worst was over.

Regarding Mike Raynham's response: I don't remember deleting any defaults. I
reinstalled from scratch many times. I ended up succeeding installing with both
PostgreSQL and MySQL (my comfort zone is MySQL, so I mostly tried using it with
MySQL, but there didn't seem to be any difference between the PostgreSQL and
MySQL versions, on the user end)

Regarding Bret Dawson's response: I can't wait to be "100% blown away" by
Bricolage.

A friendly challenge (perhaps already met and moot): Several CMS's
out there have built-in or module-oid hierarchical data components (for menus
and other tree-like data structures)... Does Bricolage have one such? Or
perhaps the majority of bricolage users consider that a 20-minute
spur-of-the-moment no-brainer task (setting up tree data tables), and thus it's
not "formalized" into the package. (I'm referring to some popular PHP-based
CMS's. And, for the record, "PHP" is not one of my words of endearment (sorry
-- I risk starting something here... don't mean to...after all this should be a
Perl stronghold))

By the way, Mike: I meant "TIA" as "Thanks In Advance". This reminds me of
once corresponding with someone in French where they ended their message with
"A+" and I thought they were rating my previous message as excellent. When I
replied, modestly denying the merit of such a rating, the guy wrote back,
amused, explaining that "A+" was modern French colloquial shorthand for "A plus
tard" -- (roughly, "See/Talk to you later").

On July 18, 2011 at 10:21 AM Paul Orrock <paulo [at] digitalcraftsmen> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This actually sounds like your Bricolage installation has failed in some
> way or has been changed in a way that won't allow you to things properly
> as your user.
>
> Is this Bricolage installed from scratch or is it a downloaded VM from
> the options here : http://bricolagecms.org/downloads/ ? If you've
> installed it, what OS and Bricolage version are you using ?
>
> In terms of out of the box assuming you're using the "local preview
> server" option in the config, you should be able to login as admin,
> create a new story with a page or two and preview it without having to
> change anything. It should just work, if it doesn't then we're here to
> help.
>
> Where the templates and elements fit together, with sub elements, media,
> output channels etc does take a while to master, but once you do, it's
> amazing how powerful the system is.
>
> regards,
>
> Paul
>
>
> On 14/07/2011 01:42, Bric wrote:
> > Amazingly, over the last 8 or 9 months, i've returned to bricolage to try
> > to
> > get a "Hello World" that amounts to at least one properly template-burned
> > and
> > FTP-ed page to some server space....
> >
> > upon countless attempt trying to do this, read the forum, other
> > documentations,
> > I still fail to understand the most rudimentary underpinnings of Bricolage:
> > Its
> > jargon and taxonomy and its chains and trees of elements and administrative
> > procedures needed to produce one single solitary page.
> >
> > Most notably I still have not a shred of clue how to edit a template, how to
> > import one, and how exactly it fits in the scheme.
> > Among other frustrating show-stoppers here's one I just encountered:
> >
> > I am trying to create a new story and I get "Please select a story type".
> > This
> > alert comes up with a replacement screen where my input (from previous
> > screen)
> > has been wiped out. Furthermore, the "Story Type" line has nothing but the
> > prompt "Story Type". So I can't select a story type -- the selection widget
> > is
> > missing. Instead of the presumed, expected drop-down list there is NOTHING.
> >
> > I've gotten other bewildering absences of dropdown list, elsewhere. I can't
> > remember which exactly -- it was either the inability to select multiple
> > destinations to workflows (missing dropdown box, inspite of the prompts
> > suggesting there should be one), or multiple something else attached to
> > something ... in the (pardon the word and the perception) "byzantine" chain
> > (labyrinth!) of workflows, destinations, stories, sites, templates, etc.
> > etc.
> >
> > I am very willing and ready to take heavy lashing here, from Bricolage pros
> > who
> > would like to disabuse me of this "byzantine" perception I am having. Just
> > please understand that it's been many many months of periodic attempts to
> > accede
> > to SOME type of bricolage productivity -- each attempt stopping completely
> > dead
> > in its tracks -- hopefully only due to my ignorance.
> >
> > please help!
> >
> > tia
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

bret at pectopah

Jul 19, 2011, 1:53 PM

Post #7 of 28 (1358 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

OK, I get the explanation, but in the absence of any other name for you,
I'll continue to call you Tia.

So, Tia:

> A friendly challenge (perhaps already met and moot): Several CMS's
> out there have built-in or module-oid hierarchical data components (for menus
> and other tree-like data structures)... Does Bricolage have one such? Or
> perhaps the majority of bricolage users consider that a 20-minute
> spur-of-the-moment no-brainer task (setting up tree data tables), and thus it's
> not "formalized" into the package. (I'm referring to some popular PHP-based
> CMS's. And, for the record, "PHP" is not one of my words of endearment (sorry
> -- I risk starting something here... don't mean to...after all this should be a
> Perl stronghold))

Nothing against any of those popular platforms. Bricolage does not come
with anything like that, although a future edition might. The key thing
to get used to is that Bricolage is so powerful because it's so
flexible. There really is no default way to do things.

Setting up incredibly elaborate data structures is indeed easy to do,
though, and it does not involve any direct table work at all. The place
where the magic happens is in the UI, in the Element Type manager.
You'll find it under Admin >> Publishing >> Element Types.

In the Element Type manager, if you do a search, you'll see all the
element types you have in your installation, including top-level story
and media types, as well as subelement types, which are groups of fields
that can be added to story or media documents.

If you don't see anything when you do a search, your installation has no
story types defined, and that's why you had the problem you explained.
No problem! Just click the link to create a new element types, make it a
story, and start exploring. You'll be able to add fields and specify how
many of them should appear. Save the element type. You ought to see your
new story type when you try to create a new story.

Let us know how it goes.

Cheers,

Bret

> On July 18, 2011 at 10:21 AM Paul Orrock <paulo [at] digitalcraftsmen> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > This actually sounds like your Bricolage installation has failed in some
> > way or has been changed in a way that won't allow you to things properly
> > as your user.
> >
> > Is this Bricolage installed from scratch or is it a downloaded VM from
> > the options here : http://bricolagecms.org/downloads/ ? If you've
> > installed it, what OS and Bricolage version are you using ?
> >
> > In terms of out of the box assuming you're using the "local preview
> > server" option in the config, you should be able to login as admin,
> > create a new story with a page or two and preview it without having to
> > change anything. It should just work, if it doesn't then we're here to
> > help.
> >
> > Where the templates and elements fit together, with sub elements, media,
> > output channels etc does take a while to master, but once you do, it's
> > amazing how powerful the system is.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> > On 14/07/2011 01:42, Bric wrote:
> > > Amazingly, over the last 8 or 9 months, i've returned to bricolage to try
> > > to
> > > get a "Hello World" that amounts to at least one properly template-burned
> > > and
> > > FTP-ed page to some server space....
> > >
> > > upon countless attempt trying to do this, read the forum, other
> > > documentations,
> > > I still fail to understand the most rudimentary underpinnings of Bricolage:
> > > Its
> > > jargon and taxonomy and its chains and trees of elements and administrative
> > > procedures needed to produce one single solitary page.
> > >
> > > Most notably I still have not a shred of clue how to edit a template, how to
> > > import one, and how exactly it fits in the scheme.
> > > Among other frustrating show-stoppers here's one I just encountered:
> > >
> > > I am trying to create a new story and I get "Please select a story type".
> > > This
> > > alert comes up with a replacement screen where my input (from previous
> > > screen)
> > > has been wiped out. Furthermore, the "Story Type" line has nothing but the
> > > prompt "Story Type". So I can't select a story type -- the selection widget
> > > is
> > > missing. Instead of the presumed, expected drop-down list there is NOTHING.
> > >
> > > I've gotten other bewildering absences of dropdown list, elsewhere. I can't
> > > remember which exactly -- it was either the inability to select multiple
> > > destinations to workflows (missing dropdown box, inspite of the prompts
> > > suggesting there should be one), or multiple something else attached to
> > > something ... in the (pardon the word and the perception) "byzantine" chain
> > > (labyrinth!) of workflows, destinations, stories, sites, templates, etc.
> > > etc.
> > >
> > > I am very willing and ready to take heavy lashing here, from Bricolage pros
> > > who
> > > would like to disabuse me of this "byzantine" perception I am having. Just
> > > please understand that it's been many many months of periodic attempts to
> > > accede
> > > to SOME type of bricolage productivity -- each attempt stopping completely
> > > dead
> > > in its tracks -- hopefully only due to my ignorance.
> > >
> > > please help!
> > >
> > > tia
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>

--
Bret Dawson
Producer
Pectopah Productions Inc.
(416) 895-7635
bret [at] pectopah
www.pectopah.com

david at kineticode

Jul 19, 2011, 2:31 PM

Post #8 of 28 (1355 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

On Jul 19, 2011, at 1:53 PM, Bret Dawson wrote:

> If you don't see anything when you do a search, your installation has no
> story types defined, and that's why you had the problem you explained.
> No problem! Just click the link to create a new element types, make it a
> story, and start exploring. You'll be able to add fields and specify how
> many of them should appear. Save the element type. You ought to see your
> new story type when you try to create a new story.

It's slightly less trivial than Bret makes it sound. :-) You might want to skim this article to get a feel for what's involved.

http://www.perl.com/pub/2005/11/23/bricolage_analysis.html

Best,

David

bric at flight

Jul 20, 2011, 12:26 AM

Post #9 of 28 (1362 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

On July 19, 2011 at 5:31 PM "David E. Wheeler" <david [at] kineticode> wrote:

> On Jul 19, 2011, at 1:53 PM, Bret Dawson wrote:
>
> > If you don't see anything when you do a search, your installation has no
> > story types defined, and that's why you had the problem you explained.
> > No problem! Just click the link to create a new element types, make it a
> > story, and start exploring. You'll be able to add fields and specify how
> > many of them should appear. Save the element type. You ought to see your
> > new story type when you try to create a new story.
>
> It's slightly less trivial than Bret makes it sound. :-) You might want to
> skim this article to get a feel for what's involved.
>
> http://www.perl.com/pub/2005/11/23/bricolage_analysis.html
>

The link that says "complete model of the Article document type," and other such
links all lead to http://www.bricolagecms.org/, which has zero content except
for the "Future Home of bricolagecms.org" alert. Among the missing supporting
pages to the above is the "graphical representation of all of the Bricolage
website document models" - that sounds exactly like what I thought I was sorely
lacking - a visualization of how things fit together.

Also, the article you referred to has a snapshot of the bricolage menu showing
"Element Types" AND "Element" listed under Admin -> PUBLISHING. My bricolage
does have "Element Types" BUT NOT the "Elements" link in the nav menu links.

And I can't create a new story at this point. I get the error "Please select a
story type." And I can't select a story type, since there is no drop-down box
there where one presumably should be. THERE IS NOTHING to the right of the
prompt "Story Type:". Unlike all the other prompts, which have an input widget
(excepting the "Source:" prompt, which at least has the uneditable text
"Internal".)

The above problem may not have been there before. I created a few stories
somehow, a couple months ago. At this point I don't remember if the "Story
Type:" dropdown box was available then or not (I guess it was, if I got past
that).

Also, the 2005 snapshot of the nav menu in the article
( http://www.perl.com/pub/2005/11/23/graphics/element_nav.jpg ) shows "WORKFLOW"
at the very top, in blue, then "MY WORKSPACE" in orange. My bricolage has "MY
WORKSPACE" at the top, in dark teal, followed by my custom-created workflow (I
have three workflows at the moment, and can switch from one to another by means
of the top-left dropdown box, directly beneath the "Log Out" button.) Is that a
difference between the 2005 version and the current release, or does it indicate
a problem with my bricolage installation?

The "introspection template" looks interesting... and it's not missing! :-))

I'll end here for now.

TIA

Andrew

(PS: If my niece or nephew gets a spanish-speaking spouse, and I undergo a
gender change, perhaps then that in-law would call me "tia" but even then that's
only if they feel affectionate enough toward me... odds are stacked against this
me here... :-))

bric at flight

Jul 20, 2011, 1:39 AM

Post #10 of 28 (1354 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

> WORKSPACE" at the top, in dark teal, followed by my custom-created workflow (I
> have three workflows at the moment, and can switch from one to another by
> means
> of the top-left dropdown box, directly beneath the "Log Out" button.) Is that
> a

just to be sure: the top-right dropdown box I mention above switches between
**sites**, not between workflows. However, a different workflow appears on the
left, when I switch to a different site. And I don't know what to think of the
correspondence between a site and a workflow. Bricolage lets you create multiple
workflows per site. So, it's a one-to-many correspondence? But then, only one
particular workflow appears in the left nav menu, suggesting a one-to-one
correspondence. PLus, the fact that there are multiple workflow TYPES is
confusing the heck out of me.

willi.schiegel at technologit

Jul 20, 2011, 2:35 AM

Post #11 of 28 (1352 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

Hello All,

I started reading this list after the post from Andrew which started
this thread. I thought I was alone with my problems understanding the
Bricolage system. I wholeheartedly agree to what Andrew said. I'm
constantly jumping between documentation snippets and have the
impression that to understand something one has to know everything. I
think others have managed to setup large sites with Bricolage and I'm
wondering how they did it. Is there somewhere a step-by-step guide to
setup a simple website? Like starting with "I have a HTML file and a CSS
file which make up the design for the pages of my site", going further
to "How can I start from these two files to build up my site using
Bricolage". Are there any books about Bricolage?

Currently I am trying to learn Bricolage and WebGUI, two CMS which
partly overlap in functionality if I understood it right and I must say
that both are very hard to understand. I know some PHP based systems
which are very easy to start with but often break apart if customization
and extension needs exceed some base level. That's why I wanted to get a
taste of Perl based systems.

Is there someone going to write a kind of step-by-step guide? I could
help by following every step and asking all the stupid questions a
newbie possibly could ask :-)

Thank you.

Greetings,
Willi

zdravko.balorda at siix

Jul 20, 2011, 4:02 AM

Post #12 of 28 (1355 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

I'd like to say that Bricolage can't be approached no step-by-step
basis. Bricolage is based on a concept. Quite complex, too, but offering
a lot. When teaching a new user, I always end up with a drawing of what
Bricolage is, and users always grab it at the end and take it with them. :)

Unfortunately, concepts tend to be hard to describe and write down.
They are much easier to teach and explain.

Regards, Zdravko

Willi Schiegel wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I started reading this list after the post from Andrew which started
> this thread. I thought I was alone with my problems understanding the
> Bricolage system. I wholeheartedly agree to what Andrew said. I'm
> constantly jumping between documentation snippets and have the
> impression that to understand something one has to know everything. I
> think others have managed to setup large sites with Bricolage and I'm
> wondering how they did it. Is there somewhere a step-by-step guide to
> setup a simple website? Like starting with "I have a HTML file and a CSS
> file which make up the design for the pages of my site", going further
> to "How can I start from these two files to build up my site using
> Bricolage". Are there any books about Bricolage?
>
> Currently I am trying to learn Bricolage and WebGUI, two CMS which
> partly overlap in functionality if I understood it right and I must say
> that both are very hard to understand. I know some PHP based systems
> which are very easy to start with but often break apart if customization
> and extension needs exceed some base level. That's why I wanted to get a
> taste of Perl based systems.
>
> Is there someone going to write a kind of step-by-step guide? I could
> help by following every step and asking all the stupid questions a
> newbie possibly could ask :-)
>
> Thank you.
>
> Greetings,
> Willi
>
>

bric at flight

Jul 20, 2011, 5:30 AM

Post #13 of 28 (1357 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

On July 20, 2011 at 7:02 AM Zdravko Balorda <zdravko.balorda [at] siix> wrote:

>
> I'd like to say that Bricolage can't be approached no step-by-step
> basis. Bricolage is based on a concept. Quite complex, too, but offering
> a lot. When teaching a new user, I always end up with a drawing of what
> Bricolage is, and users always grab it at the end and take it with them. :)
>
> Unfortunately, concepts tend to be hard to describe and write down.
> They are much easier to teach and explain.

I am sorry, Zdravko -- but your dichotomy "describe and write down" versus
"teach and explain" is really not a dichotomy. I don't mean to nitpick here, but
they are not opposing notions; they overlap semantically: teaching often
involves writing things down and describing, etc...

I am just trying to help (myself AND, possibly, others). I second Willi's
volunteering to help beef up the documentation and faq. I will help with that,
too, as soon as I gain enough understanding.

Any learning material can be forcibly presented in a series of steps. A course
in quantum mechanics is taught step-by-step (class by class), incrementally...
we live in the time dimension, and time is linear (even though quantum mechanics
deals with a vastly complex number of interdependent phenomena). Otherwise,
what you are suggesting then is that learning (or perhaps teaching) Bricolage is
impossible. That would directly contradict various recent assertions in this
thread even.

Whatever can NOT be understood in isolated increments, the student needs to be
presented all at once, with all the dots connected. And perhaps that's where
your emphasis on drawings is correct. I too indicated in my previous post that I
thought a visualization of how things fit together would be the silver bullet
for me. But each separate "dot" still needs to be placed in the learner's mind,
one at a time.

For instance, that same question I raised: how is the Bricolage UI manifesting
the one-to-many correspondence between workflows and sites? Is it /really/
one-to-many? This can be discussed and explained as an isolated dot. Even though
understanding just that alone would be far from understanding the whole thing.
But that would be an increment, a step. And so on. Until the "aha!" moment, the
epiphany happens. But one needs to load the brain with the critical mass of
concepts which will trigger that "aha!". The loading occurs incrementally,
usually.

But, really, for the time being, I am merely asking the list to help me
determine if my installation yielded a fully functional bricolage, or are things
silently missing, which prevents me from using it? (E.g. why am I missing the
"Story type" select drop-down box, and why don't I see the "Elements" navigation
link on the right, etc., etc.)

Zdravko, could you please furnish one of your diagrams?

thanks

andrew

ps at phillipadsmith

Jul 20, 2011, 5:36 AM

Post #14 of 28 (1356 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

On 2011-07-20, at 8:30 AM, Bric wrote:

> But, really, for the time being, I am merely asking the list to help me
> determine if my installation yielded a fully functional bricolage, or are things
> silently missing, which prevents me from using it? (E.g. why am I missing the
> "Story type" select drop-down box, and why don't I see the "Elements" navigation
> link on the right, etc., etc.)

Can you post some screenshots of screens you're struggling with, e.g., story screen, element types list, workflow list, etc.

--
Phillip Smith
http://phillipadsmith.com
http://twitter.com/phillipadsmith
http://linkedin.com/in/phillipadsmith

Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org

zdravko.balorda at siix

Jul 20, 2011, 6:07 AM

Post #15 of 28 (1363 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

Tank you, Andrew, for a long critics. :) Well deserved.

The thing is that everybody wants "everything for dummies"... never mind
if it's quantum mechanics, I want to know now, immediately...

When you teach someone you've got his attention for at least an hour or two,
so you can develop around everything you need. If you want to put it in a form of
some web page, well, it's possible, I am sure. I draw while I talk to somebody, starting
from internet in general being "a cloud", pointing to our site at hand, its tree structure,
then showing how Bricolage connects to it from behind the scenes, having flat archive, user
workspace and desks, ending up with check out, check in, publish, being an ever lasting
circle, on which a user will ride 90% od the time.

To set up all this, it becomes clear why one wants workflows, site context, output channels
and all other components making Bricolage so difficult for a beginner to grasp.
And here, I didn't even start talking about DOM and templating.

I'm afraid I don't have any quicker fix. It's the CMS business in general and than
how Bricolage or Joomla, for that matter, fits into this.

In teaching users I am seriously considering having a regular monthly workshops, especially
since my Bricolage setup is getting ever more complex and I can't possibly communicate
things to users via email or phone.

Regards, Zdravko

Bric wrote:
> On July 20, 2011 at 7:02 AM Zdravko Balorda <zdravko.balorda [at] siix> wrote:
>
>> I'd like to say that Bricolage can't be approached no step-by-step
>> basis. Bricolage is based on a concept. Quite complex, too, but offering
>> a lot. When teaching a new user, I always end up with a drawing of what
>> Bricolage is, and users always grab it at the end and take it with them. :)
>>
>> Unfortunately, concepts tend to be hard to describe and write down.
>> They are much easier to teach and explain.
>
> I am sorry, Zdravko -- but your dichotomy "describe and write down" versus
> "teach and explain" is really not a dichotomy. I don't mean to nitpick here, but
> they are not opposing notions; they overlap semantically: teaching often
> involves writing things down and describing, etc...

bric at flight

Jul 20, 2011, 7:24 AM

Post #16 of 28 (1355 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

On July 20, 2011 at 9:07 AM Zdravko Balorda <zdravko.balorda [at] siix> wrote:

> Tank you, Andrew, for a long critics. :) Well deserved.
>
> The thing is that everybody wants "everything for dummies"... never mind
> if it's quantum mechanics, I want to know now, immediately...

If I were an "I want to know now, immediately" guy, I wouldn't be pursuing a
project over the course of several months, and, in spite of failures to make it
work, maintain enough hope and persistence to appeal to the user group "8 months
later".

> > When you teach someone you've got his attention for at least an hour or two,
> so you can develop around everything you need. If you want to put it in a form
> of
> some web page, well, it's possible, I am sure. I draw while I talk to
> somebody, starting
> from internet in general being "a cloud", pointing to our site at hand, its
> tree structure,

I don't need a diagram of the cloud and servers. I have tried and used a
variety of CMSs, including my own kludges. I know that Bricolage (at least) FTPs
the burned product over to the server. I have actually been able to achieve that
much with Bricolage. You stray away from the specific problems i've stated here
before -- why are certain, particular widgets and links missing?

What tree structure are you referring to?

> then showing how Bricolage connects to it from behind the scenes, having flat
> archive, user> workspace and desks, ending up with check out, check in,
> publish, being an ever lasting
> circle, on which a user will ride 90% od the time.

You mean an endless (feedback) loop? Hardly. From the little I know about
Bricolage in particular, and CMS in general, there is an end product. The end
product itself does not feed back into the loop. (Perhaps only in the sense of
re-fueling the developers'/designers' creative imagination, to go back and
tweak/enhance) So your analogy with "everlasting circle" is, at best, sloppy.

> > To set up all this, it becomes clear why one wants workflows, site context,
> > output channels
> and all other components making Bricolage so difficult for a beginner to
> grasp.
> And here, I didn't even start talking about DOM and templating.

The statement "it becomes clear why one wants workflows, site context, output
channels" does not help me. It hasn't completely become clear how these elements
fit together, although there's some progress on my part. Leveraging David
Wheeler's assertion that this user group is very helpful, I challenge you to not
reply at all if you are not helping. You seem to be taking the time to
philosophize about why you cannot help. And are not making any effort to help.
Other than repeat the generalities already stated here -- that Bricolage is
superpowerful but complex and difficult. And it needs visual diagrams. You can
draw diagrams and have done so successfully for your Bricolage pupils. But you
need to be talking/teaching out loud in order to draw these diagrams. (This last
part *IS* new information, granted)

> > I'm afraid I don't have any quicker fix. It's the CMS business in general
> > and than
> how Bricolage or Joomla, for that matter, fits into this.

You haven't even begun a slow "fix". Sorry. "CMS business in general"... that
REALLY addresses my question about specific missing widgets, zeroing in, right
on target.

>
> In teaching users I am seriously considering having a regular monthly
> workshops, especially
> since my Bricolage setup is getting ever more complex and I can't possibly
> communicate
> things to users via email or phone.

And above you're discrediting this very medium -- the mailing list, as a viable
way to help with Bricolage.

> >
> Regards, Zdravko
>
> Bric wrote:
> > On July 20, 2011 at 7:02 AM Zdravko Balorda <zdravko.balorda [at] siix>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I'd like to say that Bricolage can't be approached no step-by-step
> >> basis. Bricolage is based on a concept. Quite complex, too, but offering
> >> a lot. When teaching a new user, I always end up with a drawing of what
> >> Bricolage is, and users always grab it at the end and take it with them. :)
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, concepts tend to be hard to describe and write down.
> >> They are much easier to teach and explain.
> >
> > I am sorry, Zdravko -- but your dichotomy "describe and write down" versus
> > "teach and explain" is really not a dichotomy. I don't mean to nitpick here,
> > but
> > they are not opposing notions; they overlap semantically: teaching often
> > involves writing things down and describing, etc...

bret at pectopah

Jul 20, 2011, 7:24 AM

Post #17 of 28 (1353 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

Hi Andrew,

Lots of voices here, and lots of thoughts, but I think it's probably
good to try to get your installation back to square one before jumping
into anything else. Don't worry too much about complexity, at least not
yet.

To that end, instead of even thinking about multiple sites, and their
relationships to workflows, can you try this?

1. Go to Admin >> System >> Sites

2. If you have more than one listed, see if you can spot the default
one. Mousing over the "Edit" or "Log" links will show you the ID numbers
of sites. The default one should an ID number of 100. (If you haven't
changed names, it will be easy to spot without bothering about IDs.)

3. Using the pulldown menu at the top right, switch to that site.

4. Now try creating a new story again.

5. Let us know what happens.

Cheers,

Bret

On Wed, 2011-07-20 at 08:30 -0400, Bric wrote:
> On July 20, 2011 at 7:02 AM Zdravko Balorda <zdravko.balorda [at] siix> wrote:
>
> >
> > I'd like to say that Bricolage can't be approached no step-by-step
> > basis. Bricolage is based on a concept. Quite complex, too, but offering
> > a lot. When teaching a new user, I always end up with a drawing of what
> > Bricolage is, and users always grab it at the end and take it with them. :)
> >
> > Unfortunately, concepts tend to be hard to describe and write down.
> > They are much easier to teach and explain.
>
> I am sorry, Zdravko -- but your dichotomy "describe and write down" versus
> "teach and explain" is really not a dichotomy. I don't mean to nitpick here, but
> they are not opposing notions; they overlap semantically: teaching often
> involves writing things down and describing, etc...
>
>
> I am just trying to help (myself AND, possibly, others). I second Willi's
> volunteering to help beef up the documentation and faq. I will help with that,
> too, as soon as I gain enough understanding.
>
> Any learning material can be forcibly presented in a series of steps. A course
> in quantum mechanics is taught step-by-step (class by class), incrementally...
> we live in the time dimension, and time is linear (even though quantum mechanics
> deals with a vastly complex number of interdependent phenomena). Otherwise,
> what you are suggesting then is that learning (or perhaps teaching) Bricolage is
> impossible. That would directly contradict various recent assertions in this
> thread even.
>
> Whatever can NOT be understood in isolated increments, the student needs to be
> presented all at once, with all the dots connected. And perhaps that's where
> your emphasis on drawings is correct. I too indicated in my previous post that I
> thought a visualization of how things fit together would be the silver bullet
> for me. But each separate "dot" still needs to be placed in the learner's mind,
> one at a time.
>
> For instance, that same question I raised: how is the Bricolage UI manifesting
> the one-to-many correspondence between workflows and sites? Is it /really/
> one-to-many? This can be discussed and explained as an isolated dot. Even though
> understanding just that alone would be far from understanding the whole thing.
> But that would be an increment, a step. And so on. Until the "aha!" moment, the
> epiphany happens. But one needs to load the brain with the critical mass of
> concepts which will trigger that "aha!". The loading occurs incrementally,
> usually.
>
> But, really, for the time being, I am merely asking the list to help me
> determine if my installation yielded a fully functional bricolage, or are things
> silently missing, which prevents me from using it? (E.g. why am I missing the
> "Story type" select drop-down box, and why don't I see the "Elements" navigation
> link on the right, etc., etc.)
>
> Zdravko, could you please furnish one of your diagrams?
>
> thanks
>
> andrew
>

--
Bret Dawson
Producer
Pectopah Productions Inc.
(416) 895-7635
bret [at] pectopah
www.pectopah.com

bric at flight

Jul 20, 2011, 7:59 AM

Post #18 of 28 (1353 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

On July 20, 2011 at 10:24 AM Bret Dawson <bret [at] pectopah> wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
>
> Lots of voices here, and lots of thoughts, but I think it's probably
> good to try to get your installation back to square one before jumping
> into anything else. Don't worry too much about complexity, at least not
> yet.
>
> To that end, instead of even thinking about multiple sites, and their
> relationships to workflows, can you try this?
>
>
> 1. Go to Admin >> System >> Sites
>
> 2. If you have more than one listed, see if you can spot the default
> one. Mousing over the "Edit" or "Log" links will show you the ID numbers
> of sites. The default one should an ID number of 100. (If you haven't
> changed names, it will be easy to spot without bothering about IDs.)

OK. got it. (I did rename the default, FWIW)

> > 3. Using the pulldown menu at the top right, switch to that site.
>
> 4. Now try creating a new story again.

OK. Successfully created a new story. However: not before I created a workflow
of type story.

And I think i just understood something new: A Bricolage "workflow" is a named
binding of a {Media, Story, or Template} to a site.

Is that more or less correct? If so, there's my LITTLE "aha" moment for this
morning. And one more thing to rebut the anti-incrementalists :-))

WithOUT the said workflow, I don't have a "New Story" or any other "xxxx Story"
links on the left, in the nav column. WITH it, a new section appears in the nav
column (under "MY WORKSPACE") representing the workflow, and containing the "New
Story" link. (The hours I've spent fumbling around because I didn't know this
simple, simply stated fact!)

So... I went as far as publishing this newly created story. But not any further
than before. I publish the story and the burner DOES seem to impose SOME type
of, bare-minimum templatizing -- an "<hr>" and a pagination "Page 1". Other than
that it's plain text. And this leads me to my previous distress:

A sense of complete and utter lack of control over and access to the templates.
Where are they? What does it mean "Find Template" -- where is this find looking,
and how can the user control that list? Edit templates. Apply them. Bind them to
a workflow, a site, an oc, to ANYTHING???

Andrew

> > 5. Let us know what happens.

bret at pectopah

Jul 20, 2011, 8:22 AM

Post #19 of 28 (1362 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

OK, awesome!

> And I think i just understood something new: A Bricolage "workflow" is a named
> binding of a {Media, Story, or Template} to a site.
>
> Is that more or less correct? If so, there's my LITTLE "aha" moment for this
> morning. And one more thing to rebut the anti-incrementalists :-))
>
> WithOUT the said workflow, I don't have a "New Story" or any other "xxxx Story"
> links on the left, in the nav column. WITH it, a new section appears in the nav
> column (under "MY WORKSPACE") representing the workflow, and containing the "New
> Story" link. (The hours I've spent fumbling around because I didn't know this
> simple, simply stated fact!)
>

In a default installation, you have three workflows, with one for each
of stories, media, and templates. It sounds like those have been deleted
or re-assigned in your installation, which has probably made the
frustration worse.

But yes, each workflow is for one of three asset types: story, media,
template.

You can have lots and lots of workflows to handle different users, but
again, let's concentrate on simplicity for the moment.

Just as the default installation comes with a bare-bones set of default
element types, it also comes with a bare-bones set of default templates.

So here's what's next:

1. Open the templates workflow.
2. Click "find templates."
3. In the search field, enter a single percentage sign (%)
4. The search results will show you the default templates.

A notes: The percent sign is an SQL wildcard. Entering one in a
Bricolage search field passes the wildcard along, effectively turning it
into a "show everything" search. This is useful for templates.

With the Mason burner (the most widely used one, and the one used by all
the default element types), there are three kinds of templates:

1. Category templates, which are always called "autohandler"
2. Element templates, which are for stories and subelements
3. Utility templates, which allow you to build up libraries of code you
can share across documents.

For the moment, let's just pay attention to element templates. Some of
the default Bricolage story types are "Story," "Column," and "Book
Review." These element types have corresponding key names "story,"
"Column," and "book_review."

In general, it's standard Bricolage practice to use template names that
match their element key names.

So:

1. check out story.mc (or whichever one matches the new story you just
created).
2. Play around with it a bit. Add some HTML.
3. Save the template.
4. Now find the story you created. Preview it.
5. You will see your changes reflected in the preview. While you have
the template checked out, it's in your sandbox, and it affects your your
previews. Publishes will continue to work as if you hadn't made any
template changes at all.
6. Once you've done some of this experimenting, let us know how it's
going.

Incrementally,

Bret

> A sense of complete and utter lack of control over and access to the templates.
> Where are they? What does it mean "Find Template" -- where is this find looking,
> and how can the user control that list? Edit templates. Apply them. Bind them to
> a workflow, a site, an oc, to ANYTHING???
>
>
> Andrew
>
> > > 5. Let us know what happens.
>

--
Bret Dawson
Producer
Pectopah Productions Inc.
(416) 895-7635
bret [at] pectopah
www.pectopah.com

greg at node79

Jul 20, 2011, 8:31 AM

Post #20 of 28 (1355 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

On 2011-07-20, at 10:59 AM, Bric wrote:

> If so, there's my LITTLE "aha" moment for this
> morning. And one more thing to rebut the anti-incrementalists :-))

Incrementalization++ :)

Bret, maybe we can start a new step-by-step intro wiki page based on your post? We can book some time for a collective writing session at the next Bricolage hack day.

bret at pectopah

Jul 20, 2011, 8:34 AM

Post #21 of 28 (1354 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

That's a super good idea. But only if we can call the wiki page
"Creeping Incrementalism."

On Wed, 2011-07-20 at 11:31 -0400, Greg Heo wrote:
> On 2011-07-20, at 10:59 AM, Bric wrote:
>
> > If so, there's my LITTLE "aha" moment for this
> > morning. And one more thing to rebut the anti-incrementalists :-))
>
> Incrementalization++ :)
>
> Bret, maybe we can start a new step-by-step intro wiki page based on your post? We can book some time for a collective writing session at the next Bricolage hack day.
>
>

--
Bret Dawson
Producer
Pectopah Productions Inc.
(416) 895-7635
bret [at] pectopah
www.pectopah.com

andrew2010 at strebkov

Jul 20, 2011, 8:38 AM

Post #22 of 28 (1351 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

On July 20, 2011 at 11:34 AM Bret Dawson <bret [at] pectopah> wrote:

> That's a super good idea. But only if we can call the wiki page
> "Creeping Incrementalism."

well....

if you break it all down into tiny elements, then it could be

"Creeping Incrementelementalism"

> >
>
> On Wed, 2011-07-20 at 11:31 -0400, Greg Heo wrote:
> > On 2011-07-20, at 10:59 AM, Bric wrote:
> >
> > > If so, there's my LITTLE "aha" moment for this
> > > morning. And one more thing to rebut the anti-incrementalists :-))
> >
> > Incrementalization++ :)
> >
> > Bret, maybe we can start a new step-by-step intro wiki page based on your
> > post? We can book some time for a collective writing session at the next
> > Bricolage hack day.
> >
> >
>
> --
> Bret Dawson
> Producer
> Pectopah Productions Inc.
> (416) 895-7635
> bret [at] pectopah
> www.pectopah.com
>

catalyst at mikeraynham

Jul 20, 2011, 8:40 AM

Post #23 of 28 (1354 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

On 20/07/11 16:31, Greg Heo wrote:
> On 2011-07-20, at 10:59 AM, Bric wrote:
>
>> If so, there's my LITTLE "aha" moment for this
>> morning. And one more thing to rebut the anti-incrementalists :-))
>
> Incrementalization++ :)
>
> Bret, maybe we can start a new step-by-step intro wiki page based on your post? We can book some time for a collective writing session at the next Bricolage hack day.
>

I was hoping / intending to document my journey of Bricolage discovery,
and turn it into a step-by-step guide for beginners. Alas, having to
earn a living kept getting in the way. If you get around to it before
me, I might be able to help out by offering the perspective of a
reasonably fresh Bricolage convert.

Regards,

Mike

bric at flight

Jul 20, 2011, 8:46 AM

Post #24 of 28 (1351 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

On July 20, 2011 at 11:34 AM Bret Dawson <bret [at] pectopah> wrote:

> That's a super good idea. But only if we can call the wiki page
> "Creeping Incrementalism."

well....

if you broke it down into discrete elements, it could then be

"Creeping Incrementelementalism"

> >
>
> On Wed, 2011-07-20 at 11:31 -0400, Greg Heo wrote:
> > On 2011-07-20, at 10:59 AM, Bric wrote:
> >
> > > If so, there's my LITTLE "aha" moment for this
> > > morning. And one more thing to rebut the anti-incrementalists :-))
> >
> > Incrementalization++ :)
> >
> > Bret, maybe we can start a new step-by-step intro wiki page based on your
> > post? We can book some time for a collective writing session at the next
> > Bricolage hack day.
> >
> >
>
> --
> Bret Dawson
> Producer
> Pectopah Productions Inc.
> (416) 895-7635
> bret [at] pectopah
> www.pectopah.com
>

david at kineticode

Jul 21, 2011, 11:00 AM

Post #25 of 28 (1311 views)
Permalink

Re: 8 months later - not even on 1st base [In reply to]

On Jul 20, 2011, at 12:26 AM, Bric wrote:

> The link that says "complete model of the Article document type," and other such
> links all lead to http://www.bricolagecms.org/, which has zero content except
> for the "Future Home of bricolagecms.org" alert.

Actually, the URL for that link is http://www.bricolage.cc/about/doc_models/article/, which redirects to http://www.bricolagecms.org/, which for me at least loads the Bricolage home page. As it should. There is no "future home of" alert. I'm wondering if something is up with your DNS or something, or if somehow the URL got mangled in your browser.

> Among the missing supporting
> pages to the above is the "graphical representation of all of the Bricolage
> website document models" - that sounds exactly like what I thought I was sorely
> lacking - a visualization of how things fit together.

Phillip, I'd like to get these back on view, too. The redirecting of old links to the home page is highly annoying. We need links to them in the footer or something at least. I can never find them, and they're very useful to readers of that article.

> Also, the article you referred to has a snapshot of the bricolage menu showing
> "Element Types" AND "Element" listed under Admin -> PUBLISHING. My bricolage
> does have "Element Types" BUT NOT the "Elements" link in the nav menu links.

Well, the article is six years old. "Elements" was renamed to "Element Types" (because "elements were also the parts of a story, so the term was too overloaded), while "Element Types" was deprecated and is no longer visible in the UI.

> And I can't create a new story at this point. I get the error "Please select a
> story type." And I can't select a story type, since there is no drop-down box
> there where one presumably should be. THERE IS NOTHING to the right of the
> prompt "Story Type:". Unlike all the other prompts, which have an input widget
> (excepting the "Source:" prompt, which at least has the uneditable text
> "Internal".)

I think Bret helped you through this bit, yes?

> The above problem may not have been there before. I created a few stories
> somehow, a couple months ago. At this point I don't remember if the "Story
> Type:" dropdown box was available then or not (I guess it was, if I got past
> that).

You might want to consider rebuilding Bricolage and starting with the default database again. Don't create any new sites or workflows or anything, log in as the admin user, and play with the stuff that's there.

> Also, the 2005 snapshot of the nav menu in the article
> ( http://www.perl.com/pub/2005/11/23/graphics/element_nav.jpg ) shows "WORKFLOW"
> at the very top, in blue, then "MY WORKSPACE" in orange. My bricolage has "MY
> WORKSPACE" at the top, in dark teal, followed by my custom-created workflow (I
> have three workflows at the moment, and can switch from one to another by means
> of the top-left dropdown box, directly beneath the "Log Out" button.) Is that a
> difference between the 2005 version and the current release, or does it indicate
> a problem with my bricolage installation?

Yeah, that's just a difference in the versions. A lot of the UI has been tweaked in the last six years.

> The "introspection template" looks interesting... and it's not missing! :-))

I think all the templates from that article -- and, therefore, for the old design of the Bricolage site -- are available on GitHub:

https://github.com/bricoleurs/bricolagecms-templates

Best,

David

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