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Jumping in with both feet

 

 

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simonw at digitalcraftsmen

Oct 20, 2008, 12:36 PM

Post #1 of 8 (1755 views)
Permalink
Jumping in with both feet

We originally selected Bricolage back in 2003 for a project to deliver
XML content for a mobile portal. Some 45,000+ stories & 17,000+ images
later it's still going strong.

I'm pleased to say that the portal is being revamped and we're going to
be building a new version of the CMS to deliver content to it.

So we're considering jumping in with both feet and doing the work in
Bricolage 1.11.x.

Is this wise or are we being foolish, does anyone think it's really not
production ready yet ?

No doubt we'll be driving out quite a few bugs along the way and you'll
be hearing more from my colleagues Adeola (already posted a few times)
and Denny (who's coming at it with new eyes). I'm sure Paul will be
involved too.

Any advice from those at the front line already will be gratefully received.

Rgds,

Simon.

--
Digital Craftsmen Ltd
Exmouth House, 3 Pine Street, London. EC1R 0JH
t 020 7183 1410 f 020 7099 5140 m 07951 758698
w http://www.digitalcraftsmen.net/


bret at pectopah

Oct 20, 2008, 12:49 PM

Post #2 of 8 (1672 views)
Permalink
Re: Jumping in with both feet [In reply to]

Hi Simon,

For our first Bricolage site years ago, we used a development version
(something in the 1.7 series) because we were eager to take advantage of
one of the new features. Although I can't for the life of me remember
which feature that was.

Anyway, it mostly worked out fine, until we wanted to upgrade it. There
things got much murkier. Eventually the murk went away, but I've learned
to love upgrade scripts that have, you know, actually passed tests.

Long story short, I think I'd wait for the production version. Then
again, you Digital Craftsmen are pretty good at computers, so you might
have an easier time with that stuff.


W/r/t getting 2.0 out: I'm almost finished installing Perl modules on
my laptop, which will allow it to become an aggressive test machine.
Whee!


Cheers,

Bret


On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 20:36 +0100, Simon Wilcox wrote:
> We originally selected Bricolage back in 2003 for a project to deliver
> XML content for a mobile portal. Some 45,000+ stories & 17,000+ images
> later it's still going strong.
>
> I'm pleased to say that the portal is being revamped and we're going to
> be building a new version of the CMS to deliver content to it.
>
> So we're considering jumping in with both feet and doing the work in
> Bricolage 1.11.x.
>
> Is this wise or are we being foolish, does anyone think it's really not
> production ready yet ?
>
> No doubt we'll be driving out quite a few bugs along the way and you'll
> be hearing more from my colleagues Adeola (already posted a few times)
> and Denny (who's coming at it with new eyes). I'm sure Paul will be
> involved too.
>
> Any advice from those at the front line already will be gratefully received.
>
> Rgds,
>
> Simon.
>
--
Bret Dawson
Producer
Pectopah Productions Inc.
(416) 895-7635
bret [at] pectopah
www.pectopah.com


rolfm at denison

Oct 20, 2008, 2:21 PM

Post #3 of 8 (1658 views)
Permalink
Re: Jumping in with both feet [In reply to]

On Oct 20, 2008, at 3:36 PM, Simon Wilcox wrote:

> We originally selected Bricolage back in 2003 for a project to
> deliver XML content for a mobile portal. Some 45,000+ stories &
> 17,000+ images later it's still going strong.
>
> I'm pleased to say that the portal is being revamped and we're going
> to be building a new version of the CMS to deliver content to it.
>
> So we're considering jumping in with both feet and doing the work in
> Bricolage 1.11.x.
>
> Is this wise or are we being foolish, does anyone think it's really
> not production ready yet ?

The good: I am very excited about the forthcoming 2.0 release. The
AJAX goes a *long* way to solving some of the more frustrating user
interface issues. The element occurrence improvements are massive for
outputting hardcore structured xml. We won't be running this on MySQL
anytime soon, but those improvements will be of use to people who use
that DB. Apache 2 support is very welcome. It works with Perl 5.10.
I have no doubt this will be the best version of Bricolage yet by a
long shot.

The bad: I haven't tested 1.11.1 very rigorously yet, but I've found
plenty of bugs. Most of them are of the user interface variety. Some
of them are holdovers from 1.10, some of them are new feature
specific. The one thing that concerns me, as I mentioned in my last e-
mail, is the coherence among the Find Stories/Desks/Workspaces. At
Denison in version 1.10 we experienced files duplicating themselves
(check out a document, start editing, and suddenly two documents are
in the workflow or on the desk), files slipping out of workflows,
things like that. 1.11.1 has the added fun of AJAX buttons, which
didn't always work the best in earlier builds. Those issues have
greatly improved, but I've still found some coherence problems. One
story I created will not show up on any desk interface no matter what
I do. The find stories interface would let me check out stories I
already had checked out.

The bottom line: There is nothing to suggest Bricolage 2.0 is more
unstable than 1.0, but I've also not subjected it to serious load
testing nor even a methodical testing procedure. There are great
improvements in the interface, but there is also a lot that could be
patched and improved before a release goes out. It seems like 1.11.1
has provided the momentum for us and a lot of others to do more
serious bug testing and fixing in the coming weeks.

Ultimately, it is up to you. Take a look at the bugs that have been
filed against 1.11.1. Set up a test server, import your stuff and see
how it goes in a controlled environment. If you feel like the bugs
that are already out there and the ones you find are tolerable then go
for it.

We will undoubtedly be waiting for the release version, if not the
first point upgrade. Part of that has to do with our academic
schedule. We are in no rush, but damn is 1.11.1 sexy.

I know Scott was looking at 2.0 as well, but I'm not sure what
conclusions he came to.


-Matt


david at kineticode

Oct 20, 2008, 2:56 PM

Post #4 of 8 (1660 views)
Permalink
Re: Jumping in with both feet [In reply to]

On Oct 20, 2008, at 12:49, Bret Dawson wrote:

> Hi Simon,
>
> For our first Bricolage site years ago, we used a development version
> (something in the 1.7 series) because we were eager to take
> advantage of
> one of the new features. Although I can't for the life of me remember
> which feature that was.
>
> Anyway, it mostly worked out fine, until we wanted to upgrade it.
> There
> things got much murkier. Eventually the murk went away, but I've
> learned
> to love upgrade scripts that have, you know, actually passed tests.

FYI, there are very few database upgrades in 1.11. I've not had a
problem with them yet. Much less complex than in the 1.7.x series.

Best,

David


rolfm at denison

Oct 20, 2008, 3:01 PM

Post #5 of 8 (1663 views)
Permalink
Re: Jumping in with both feet [In reply to]

On Oct 20, 2008, at 5:56 PM, David E. Wheeler wrote:

> FYI, there are very few database upgrades in 1.11. I've not had a
> problem with them yet. Much less complex than in the 1.7.x series.

W00+! What do you think about apache2/mod_perl 2 stability?


david at kineticode

Oct 20, 2008, 4:10 PM

Post #6 of 8 (1662 views)
Permalink
Re: Jumping in with both feet [In reply to]

On Oct 20, 2008, at 15:01, Matt Rolf wrote:

> On Oct 20, 2008, at 5:56 PM, David E. Wheeler wrote:
>
>> FYI, there are very few database upgrades in 1.11. I've not had a
>> problem with them yet. Much less complex than in the 1.7.x series.
>
> W00+! What do you think about apache2/mod_perl 2 stability?

It works for me. There may be the occasional corner case where
something is borked, but I've nailed down all I can find.

Best,

David


lannings at who

Oct 21, 2008, 2:00 AM

Post #7 of 8 (1662 views)
Permalink
Re: Jumping in with both feet [In reply to]

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Matt Rolf wrote:
> On Oct 20, 2008, at 3:36 PM, Simon Wilcox wrote:
>> So we're considering jumping in with both feet and doing the work in
>> Bricolage 1.11.x.
>>
>> Is this wise or are we being foolish, does anyone think it's really not
>> production ready yet ?

I'm not really sure, to be honest.
Though I'm biased to encourage you to do it
so that I have fewer things to fix. :)

I'm fairly conservative about upgrading/patching,
so I expect there to be a lot of problems.
When we upgraded to 1.10 it was supposedly stable,
but we found plenty of bugs. (Maybe they were stable bugs.)
I expect the same thing with 2.0.


> I know Scott was looking at 2.0 as well, but I'm not sure what conclusions
> he came to.

We're hoping to upgrade to "2.0" by January.
The more people that are working on it the better, in my view.

We're working with Gossamer Threads to implement a few features.
I'm not sure what's finalized or whatever, but some things
that we've been discussing which are likely to be integrateable
back into Bricolage are:
o in-place editable paragraphs in preview
(I'm not sure how that'll work in a generic not-necessarily-HTML way, though)
o a preference for RTL/LTR direction switching in text fields
(for languages like Arabic)
o copy+paste of a block of elements
(we're hoping to be able to move them between containers, too,
where allowable, not just within a given container)
o category auto-complete enhancements
(not sure if most of those aren't already in Bricolage but just
need enabled here)


simonw at digitalcraftsmen

Oct 21, 2008, 5:30 AM

Post #8 of 8 (1647 views)
Permalink
Re: Jumping in with both feet [In reply to]

Scott Lanning wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Matt Rolf wrote:
>> On Oct 20, 2008, at 3:36 PM, Simon Wilcox wrote:
>>> So we're considering jumping in with both feet and doing the work in
>>> Bricolage 1.11.x.
>>>
>>> Is this wise or are we being foolish, does anyone think it's really not
>>> production ready yet ?
>
> I'm not really sure, to be honest.
> Though I'm biased to encourage you to do it
> so that I have fewer things to fix. :)

Well exactly, there's only a small pool of people to fix bugs, including
us so we might as well eat our own dog food and squash bugs as we come
across them :-)

> I'm fairly conservative about upgrading/patching,
> so I expect there to be a lot of problems.
> When we upgraded to 1.10 it was supposedly stable,
> but we found plenty of bugs. (Maybe they were stable bugs.)
> I expect the same thing with 2.0.

We're lucky in one respect, that we're going to be building from scratch
so upgrades won't be such a problem. We'll port some bits over but it's
largely going to be a green field installation.

S.

--
Digital Craftsmen Ltd
Exmouth House, 3 Pine Street, London. EC1R 0JH
t 020 7183 1410 f 020 7099 5140 m 07951 758698
w http://www.digitalcraftsmen.net/

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