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Comment system, take two and a half

 

 

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rumble at cord

May 23, 2012, 11:07 AM

Post #1 of 11 (847 views)
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Comment system, take two and a half

Since people have begun talking about the idea of hosting/using this
system within the ASF, I've added some more kinks to the system now.

Those of you who have created an account (or those who create one and
let me know) will now see a "moderate" link when they are viewing
comments while logged in. This will take them to a new moderator site,
where it's possible to track the latest activity, delete threads and
track specific origins (origin tracking only applies to posts made after
I revamped the moderator system, so old posts can't be tracked).

An origin is basically a digest of an IP address (to both preserve the
privacy policy and get rid of any trouble with IPv4/IPv6 mingling), and
it allows you to either ban an origin from posting, view and delete any
comments made by that origin or simply nuke everything ever posted by
that origin. You can also opt in or out of receiving email notifications
when a new post is being made (and opting in/out on a specific page is
in the works). If you like, you can also register new sites to be used
with the comment system.

If you want to test out the features, be my guest and spam away on the
trunk pages, so you can nuke your own origin to bits :)

If this moves to infra, the plan is to use the committer IDs as your new
login, so all committers essentially become moderators, but will still
have to opt in in order to receive email notifications of new posts on
the site (unless it's a reply to their own post, in which case they'll
get a reply anyway)

With regards,
Daniel.

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rumble at cord

May 27, 2012, 3:20 PM

Post #2 of 11 (801 views)
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Re: Comment system, take two and a half [In reply to]

Most of the kinks in the new comment system have now been sorted, as has
most of the question on the actual implementation of it. However, a few
questions remain, that I'd like some input on if possible:

- Should we keep the various translations separate, or should it be one
unified commentary? i.e. should the French pages separate comments from
the English pages, or should they all just roll with the same comments?

We could insist that all comments be made in English unless they are
related to a specific translations, and as long as we keep the
translations up to date with the suggestions and delete comments as they
are implemented, there shouldn't be much clutter.


- When this moves to 2.4 and possibly 2.2, should we keep each branch
separate, or should we unify it? That is, should f.x. core.html show the
same comments for 2.2, 2.4 and trunk combined, or should they be kept
separate?

I'm leaning towards the latter myself, as a lot of pages really have
changed quite a bit, and it'd become confusing if someone is suddenly
commenting on a 2.2 issue and it shows up in the 2.4 docs.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

With regards,
Daniel.

On 05/23/2012 08:07 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> Since people have begun talking about the idea of hosting/using this
> system within the ASF, I've added some more kinks to the system now.
>
> Those of you who have created an account (or those who create one and
> let me know) will now see a "moderate" link when they are viewing
> comments while logged in. This will take them to a new moderator site,
> where it's possible to track the latest activity, delete threads and
> track specific origins (origin tracking only applies to posts made after
> I revamped the moderator system, so old posts can't be tracked).
>
> An origin is basically a digest of an IP address (to both preserve the
> privacy policy and get rid of any trouble with IPv4/IPv6 mingling), and
> it allows you to either ban an origin from posting, view and delete any
> comments made by that origin or simply nuke everything ever posted by
> that origin. You can also opt in or out of receiving email notifications
> when a new post is being made (and opting in/out on a specific page is
> in the works). If you like, you can also register new sites to be used
> with the comment system.
>
> If you want to test out the features, be my guest and spam away on the
> trunk pages, so you can nuke your own origin to bits :)
>
> If this moves to infra, the plan is to use the committer IDs as your new
> login, so all committers essentially become moderators, but will still
> have to opt in in order to receive email notifications of new posts on
> the site (unless it's a reply to their own post, in which case they'll
> get a reply anyway)
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe [at] httpd
> For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help [at] httpd
>


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isoma at jellybaby

May 27, 2012, 3:36 PM

Post #3 of 11 (804 views)
Permalink
Re: Comment system, take two and a half [In reply to]

On 27 May 2012, at 23:20, Daniel Gruno wrote:

> - When this moves to 2.4 and possibly 2.2, should we keep each branch separate, or should we unify it? That is, should f.x. core.html show the same comments for 2.2, 2.4 and trunk combined, or should they be kept separate?
>
> I'm leaning towards the latter myself, as a lot of pages really have changed quite a bit, and it'd become confusing if someone is suddenly commenting on a 2.2 issue and it shows up in the 2.4 docs.

I like the idea of keeping them separate.

For each new branch, it would be nice to have a way for someone to bring over a filtered set of the existing comments that are still relevant. I think that would actually get used — it's a task you can do without knowing much about how the httpd project works.

--
Tim Bannister – isoma [at] jellybaby
Attachments: smime.p7s (4.29 KB)


rumble at cord

May 28, 2012, 11:50 PM

Post #4 of 11 (796 views)
Permalink
Re: Comment system, take two and a half [In reply to]

On 05/28/2012 09:38 PM, Gregg Smith wrote:
> Each branch different, 2.2 & 2.4 have some big differences between
> them in various areas. My 2 cents anyway.
What I'm perhaps more curious to get sorted out is whether we should
consider the trunk and the 2.4 documentation separate entities, or
whether they should be linked, comment-wise. Currently, they are pretty
much identical, but in the future it may be a good idea to keep them
separate as we move towards 2.5/2.6.

With regards,
Daniel.

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minfrin at sharp

May 29, 2012, 2:04 AM

Post #5 of 11 (800 views)
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Re: Comment system, take two and a half [In reply to]

On 29 May 2012, at 8:50 AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:

>> Each branch different, 2.2 & 2.4 have some big differences between
>> them in various areas. My 2 cents anyway.
> What I'm perhaps more curious to get sorted out is whether we should
> consider the trunk and the 2.4 documentation separate entities, or
> whether they should be linked, comment-wise. Currently, they are pretty
> much identical, but in the future it may be a good idea to keep them
> separate as we move towards 2.5/2.6.

My gut feel is that trunk shouldn't have comments at all - trunk is fluid, and changes without warning. Comments are very likely to get stale and become more of a problem than a help.

Regards,
Graham
--


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rbowen at rcbowen

May 29, 2012, 7:35 AM

Post #6 of 11 (789 views)
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Re: Comment system, take two and a half [In reply to]

On May 29, 2012, at 5:04 AM, Graham Leggett wrote:

> On 29 May 2012, at 8:50 AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>
>>> Each branch different, 2.2 & 2.4 have some big differences between
>>> them in various areas. My 2 cents anyway.
>> What I'm perhaps more curious to get sorted out is whether we should
>> consider the trunk and the 2.4 documentation separate entities, or
>> whether they should be linked, comment-wise. Currently, they are pretty
>> much identical, but in the future it may be a good idea to keep them
>> separate as we move towards 2.5/2.6.
>
> My gut feel is that trunk shouldn't have comments at all - trunk is fluid, and changes without warning. Comments are very likely to get stale and become more of a problem than a help.

I've come around to thinking that they should be separate. I think it'll be useful to have comments on trunk, but, particularly on trunk, there needs to be no expectation that comments will stick around for any time at all.

In my view of this, comments should *not* be considered a permanent part of the document. Either they get incorporated into the document itself, or they get flushed. I really don't want to see comments sticking around forever on a doc. I consider them to be more of a means of contributing to the doc effort.

--
Rich Bowen
rbowen [at] rcbowen :: @rbowen
rbowen [at] apache


wrowe at rowe-clan

May 29, 2012, 3:03 PM

Post #7 of 11 (795 views)
Permalink
Re: Comment system, take two and a half [In reply to]

On 5/29/2012 4:04 AM, Graham Leggett wrote:
> On 29 May 2012, at 8:50 AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>
>>> Each branch different, 2.2 & 2.4 have some big differences between
>>> them in various areas. My 2 cents anyway.
>> What I'm perhaps more curious to get sorted out is whether we should
>> consider the trunk and the 2.4 documentation separate entities, or
>> whether they should be linked, comment-wise. Currently, they are pretty
>> much identical, but in the future it may be a good idea to keep them
>> separate as we move towards 2.5/2.6.
>
> My gut feel is that trunk shouldn't have comments at all - trunk is fluid, and changes without warning. Comments are very likely to get stale and become more of a problem than a help.

I think we should keep them, all. That said, I think they need to be most recent
first, and it would be really cool to fade them from black to very light gray
over time unless they are voted up as 'useful info' within the most recent year.




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lucien.gentis at medecine

May 30, 2012, 1:28 AM

Post #8 of 11 (793 views)
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Re: Comment system, take two and a half [In reply to]

Le 28 mai 2012 à 00:20, Daniel Gruno a écrit :

> Most of the kinks in the new comment system have now been sorted, as has
> most of the question on the actual implementation of it. However, a few
> questions remain, that I'd like some input on if possible:
>
> - Should we keep the various translations separate, or should it be one
> unified commentary? i.e. should the French pages separate comments from
> the English pages, or should they all just roll with the same comments?
>
> We could insist that all comments be made in English unless they are
> related to a specific translations, and as long as we keep the
> translations up to date with the suggestions and delete comments as they
> are implemented, there shouldn't be much clutter.
>
>

I suggest this, if it technically possible :

- All comments posted in english pages are related to the content of the doc itself, so all localized pages are concerned by this comment and should display it (same as PHP doc)

- When a comment is posted in a localized page, like Daniel says, "insist that all comments be made in English unless they are related to a specific translations", but also that, if commenter wishes his/her comment to be displayed in all pages, it has to be written in english, and posted in the english page, and that if the comment is posted in the current page, in the relevant language, it will only be displayed in this current page


Lucien Gentis
SIRET
Faculté de Médecine - Nancy
lucien.gentis [at] univ-lorraine
03 83 68 30 62


rumble at cord

May 30, 2012, 2:25 AM

Post #9 of 11 (793 views)
Permalink
Re: Comment system, take two and a half [In reply to]

On 05/30/2012 12:03 AM, William A. Rowe Jr. wrote:
> I think we should keep them, all. That said, I think they need to be most recent
> first, and it would be really cool to fade them from black to very light gray
> over time unless they are voted up as 'useful info' within the most recent year.

Whether we keep them all or not is really not my concern. You can do as
you please; Delete comments when they are implemented or off-topic, or
you can keep them. I don't really care that much about the nitty gritty
details of how you want to proceed (read: It's not a show-stopper for
implementing comments whether we disagree on keeping them forever or
not, and it's perhaps better suited for when we actually have some
comments to look at and discuss the validity of).

I've changed the ordering of the comments, so the newest comments now
appear first, except for replies, thus the new order would be something
like:

- Newest comment here (1 hour ago)
- Older comment here (4 days ago)
- - Reply 1 to old comment (4 days ago)
- - Reply 2 to old comment (2 days ago)
- - Reply 3 to old comment (12 hours ago)
- Oldest comment here. (6 days ago)

As for rating them, I've added a simple rating system where people can
+1 or -1 a comment, and if we, in the near future, decide we want these
ratings to have an impact on how the comments are displayed, then we'll
just make that adjustment once/if it makes sense to do so. However, I
don't really see that as something we need to decide on right now, as
it's better to view this in a bigger scope once comments have been made
on pages and we can see if this'll make sense to implement or not.


On 05/30/2012 10:28 AM, Lucien Gentis wrote:
>
> I think it's going to be very difficult, technically, to implement the stuff you want. It's either going to be "each translation has its own comment thread" or it's going to be "all translations share the same comments". I'm sure the human mind can differentiate between comments that are meant for a specific translation, and comments that are meant as a general comment to the overall meaning of the documentation.
> At the moment, the consensus is leaning towards just making it simple and getting all translations to use the same comment thread. If there's no big objections to this, I'll assume that's what we're going to go for, at least initially. We can ALWAYS change the details of this as we go along.
>

I think it's going to be very difficult, technically, to implement the
stuff you want. It's either going to be "each translation has its own
comment thread" or it's going to be "all translations share the same
comments". I'm sure the human mind can differentiate between comments
that are meant for a specific translation, and comments that are meant
as a general comment to the overall meaning of the documentation.
At the moment, the consensus is leaning towards just making it simple
and getting all translations to use the same comment thread. If there's
no big objections to this, I'll assume that's what we're going to go
for, at least initially. We can ALWAYS change the details of this as we
go along.



With regards,
Daniel.

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rumble at cord

May 30, 2012, 2:30 AM

Post #10 of 11 (793 views)
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Re: Comment system, take two and a half [In reply to]

Aaand that wasn't Lucien's comment that showed up in that email.
Apologies, my email client seems to be playing tricks with me :)

What I was replying to was this:

if commenter wishes his/her comment to be displayed in all pages, it has
to be written in english, and posted in the english page, and that if
the comment is posted in the current page, in the relevant language, it
will only be displayed in this current page

With regards,
Daniel.

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DRuggeri at primary

May 30, 2012, 3:41 AM

Post #11 of 11 (791 views)
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Re: Comment system, take two and a half [In reply to]

On 5/29/2012 9:35 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
> In my view of this, comments should *not* be considered a permanent
> part of the document. Either they get incorporated into the document
> itself, or they get flushed. I really don't want to see comments
> sticking around forever on a doc. I consider them to be more of a
> means of contributing to the doc effort.

Big +1 to this.

--
Daniel Ruggeri


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