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aethiops007 at yahoo

Jul 17, 2008, 9:27 AM

Post #26 of 27 (1095 views)
Permalink
Re: Large Log FIles [In reply to]

Thanks Alan,
Here is the thing my host told me I recieve 2,000 request (hits) per second. What if I count the amount of images I have on the page and from there divide by the number of request (hits)? How does that sound?



----- Original Message ----
From: Alan Dennis Wright <A.D.Wright [at] derby>
To: Support for analog web log analyzer <analog-help [at] lists>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 11:19:34 AM
Subject: RE: [analog-help] Large Log FIles

The numbers in ( ) are usally for the last 7 days.  Near the top of your report there is a line that'll tell you.

IP addresses can give you some idea - but some IP addresses are just firewalls or NAT boxes etc that are masking groups of computers from the internet.  Some ISP's give each access its own IP so you may have 1 webpage (1 x html, 9 images) and '10' visits which is just a single person fetching a page.

Unfortunatly a lot of people want 'exact' and can't/won't understand that even when presented with it as 'x' piece of software does it.  Remember the quote - Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics.  Analog reports what it can - it doesn't attempt to 'guess'.  Cookies, sessions help but, as Jason says - you can't change how the web works.  It's a fundamental but it also works very well.

Rgds

Alan Wright
FEHS Technician

-----Original Message-----
From: analog-help-bounces [at] lists [mailto:analog-help-bounces [at] lists] On Behalf Of Kush
Sent: 17 July 2008 15:50
To: Alan Dennis Wright; Support for analog web log analyzer
Subject: Re: [analog-help] Large Log FIles

WOW! It seems a little hopeless. Unique IP addresses can't count as visits? I was thinking I can use "Successful requests for pages" as visits. On Analog, what are the numbers in ( )'s ?


----- Original Message ----
From: Jason Linhart <jason [at] summary>
To: Support for analog web log analyzer <analog-help [at] lists>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 10:22:01 AM
Subject: Re: [analog-help] Large Log FIles

There is no way to accurately determine visits or visitors. It doesn't help to take the additional steps (sessions, cookies etc), that just gives you different results, not better results.

This is a fundamental issue in how the web works. There is no solution, only approximations. There isn't even a standard for how to do the approximations. Various groups use different approaches to approximating the results.

All kinds of trouble comes from this. Everyone always wants to know the number of visits/visitors. Since we can't know either of those, some approximation is made and used as if it is true. However, every approach to making an approximation gives different results, so when someone challenges your approximation they will always be able to come up with some "authoritative" source that gives conflicting results, no matter where you got your numbers to begin with.

Jason


Sean at Imaginet wrote:
>
> Certain other analysis packages <cough> Webtrends </cough> will _claim_
> to be able to tell you this information but it is inevitably arrived at
> by placing assumptions on the data available and cannot be viewed as
> being reliable and additionally costs a packet for the privilege of
> obtaining this dubious info.
>
> To determine figures like this additional steps (sessions, cookies etc)
> need to be taken to collect the necessary information as the server logs
> alone are unable to provide it.

--
Jason [at] Summary
--
Dr. Seuss books . . . can be read and enjoyed on several levels. For
example, 'One Fish Two Fish, Red Fish Blue Fish' can be deconstructed
as a searing indictment of the narrow-minded binary counting system.
  -- Peter van der Linden, Expert C Programming, Deep C Secrets
+------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this list:
|    http://lists.meer.net/mailman/listinfo/analog-help
|
|  Analog Documentation: http://analog.cx/docs/Readme.html
|  List archives:  http://www.analog.cx/docs/mailing.html#listarchives
|  Usenet version: news://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.analog.general
+------------------------------------------------------------------------



+------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this list:
|    http://lists.meer.net/mailman/listinfo/analog-help
|
|  Analog Documentation: http://analog.cx/docs/Readme.html
|  List archives:  http://www.analog.cx/docs/mailing.html#listarchives
|  Usenet version: news://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.analog.general
+------------------------------------------------------------------------


aethiops007 at yahoo

Jul 17, 2008, 12:28 PM

Post #27 of 27 (1112 views)
Permalink
Re: Large Log FIles [In reply to]

Since, request (hits) are not "visits", would it be safe to say that "succesful request for pages" comes close? Would that be safe to tell an advertiser?



----- Original Message ----
From: Alan Dennis Wright <A.D.Wright [at] derby>
To: Support for analog web log analyzer <analog-help [at] lists>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 11:19:34 AM
Subject: RE: [analog-help] Large Log FIles

The numbers in ( ) are usally for the last 7 days.  Near the top of your report there is a line that'll tell you.

IP addresses can give you some idea - but some IP addresses are just firewalls or NAT boxes etc that are masking groups of computers from the internet.  Some ISP's give each access its own IP so you may have 1 webpage (1 x html, 9 images) and '10' visits which is just a single person fetching a page.

Unfortunatly a lot of people want 'exact' and can't/won't understand that even when presented with it as 'x' piece of software does it.  Remember the quote - Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics.  Analog reports what it can - it doesn't attempt to 'guess'.  Cookies, sessions help but, as Jason says - you can't change how the web works.  It's a fundamental but it also works very well.

Rgds

Alan Wright
FEHS Technician

-----Original Message-----
From: analog-help-bounces [at] lists [mailto:analog-help-bounces [at] lists] On Behalf Of Kush
Sent: 17 July 2008 15:50
To: Alan Dennis Wright; Support for analog web log analyzer
Subject: Re: [analog-help] Large Log FIles

WOW! It seems a little hopeless. Unique IP addresses can't count as visits? I was thinking I can use "Successful requests for pages" as visits. On Analog, what are the numbers in ( )'s ?


----- Original Message ----
From: Jason Linhart <jason [at] summary>
To: Support for analog web log analyzer <analog-help [at] lists>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 10:22:01 AM
Subject: Re: [analog-help] Large Log FIles

There is no way to accurately determine visits or visitors. It doesn't help to take the additional steps (sessions, cookies etc), that just gives you different results, not better results.

This is a fundamental issue in how the web works. There is no solution, only approximations. There isn't even a standard for how to do the approximations. Various groups use different approaches to approximating the results.

All kinds of trouble comes from this. Everyone always wants to know the number of visits/visitors. Since we can't know either of those, some approximation is made and used as if it is true. However, every approach to making an approximation gives different results, so when someone challenges your approximation they will always be able to come up with some "authoritative" source that gives conflicting results, no matter where you got your numbers to begin with.

Jason


Sean at Imaginet wrote:
>
> Certain other analysis packages <cough> Webtrends </cough> will _claim_
> to be able to tell you this information but it is inevitably arrived at
> by placing assumptions on the data available and cannot be viewed as
> being reliable and additionally costs a packet for the privilege of
> obtaining this dubious info.
>
> To determine figures like this additional steps (sessions, cookies etc)
> need to be taken to collect the necessary information as the server logs
> alone are unable to provide it.

--
Jason [at] Summary
--
Dr. Seuss books . . . can be read and enjoyed on several levels. For
example, 'One Fish Two Fish, Red Fish Blue Fish' can be deconstructed
as a searing indictment of the narrow-minded binary counting system.
  -- Peter van der Linden, Expert C Programming, Deep C Secrets
+------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this list:
|    http://lists.meer.net/mailman/listinfo/analog-help
|
|  Analog Documentation: http://analog.cx/docs/Readme.html
|  List archives:  http://www.analog.cx/docs/mailing.html#listarchives
|  Usenet version: news://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.analog.general
+------------------------------------------------------------------------



+------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this list:
|    http://lists.meer.net/mailman/listinfo/analog-help
|
|  Analog Documentation: http://analog.cx/docs/Readme.html
|  List archives:  http://www.analog.cx/docs/mailing.html#listarchives
|  Usenet version: news://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.analog.general
+------------------------------------------------------------------------

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